Very angry with both AMEX and Air Canada
Mar 6, 2019, 9:49 pm
#17
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,934
The cost of Amex eating an actually fraudulent charge is measurable.
The cost of Amex being over-cautious in fraud protection also has measurable costs.
I imagine that they carefully track both sides of the ledger and try to do the best they can.
Mar 6, 2019, 10:29 pm
#18
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: sometimes, strangely, I find myself at home
Programs: I need to do better in managing my affiliations. Oops, I overshot the runway for status next year.
Posts: 651
Holy cow, I wish people wouldn't blame the victim. In this situation, the purchaser. The credit card company should have known and should have verified in real time if necessary.
Similar situation for me last week. A credit card and a foreign transaction. I too lost out of limited time pricing and seats because despite 3D verification, Visa refused the charge.
I am fully aware that the credit card company is trying to avoid fraud, however I did nothing wrong and the seller is a national company.
The credit card company has my number and didn't call, the email came to me 2 days later.
Too late, I used another card. In the end, Citi blamed Visa.
Similar situation for me last week. A credit card and a foreign transaction. I too lost out of limited time pricing and seats because despite 3D verification, Visa refused the charge.
I am fully aware that the credit card company is trying to avoid fraud, however I did nothing wrong and the seller is a national company.
The credit card company has my number and didn't call, the email came to me 2 days later.
Too late, I used another card. In the end, Citi blamed Visa.
Mar 6, 2019, 11:03 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: No single airline or hotel chain is of much use to me anymore.
Posts: 3,279
When it was my card it was explained to me that the scam targets ethnic online communities with advertisements for secret last-minute discounted fares, which are actually ordinary fares bought with stolen credit cards. The scammers just hope that most of their customers complete their travel before the scam is detected.
Mar 7, 2019, 12:18 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: aa plat, marriott gold elite
Posts: 97
See attempted charge details below:
Merchant:
PLUSGRADE G P
Attempted Date:
03/06/19
Amount:
1,370.00 USD
Original Status:
Declined
Mar 7, 2019, 1:53 am
#21
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: FB, Accor, Marriot
Posts: 426
Some mention that because it is a regular company, AMEX should not flag the transaction as fraudulent. However it's a transaction that the purchaser is not used to do... A few years ago, controls were less strict, and AMEX didn't flag a purchase as fraudulent when a same day ticket was used with another flyer's name... So I personally prefer the once in a while mistake. And I guess AMEX does as well ;-)
Mar 7, 2019, 6:29 am
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
I specifically chose an itinerary that connects in YYZ to go to FCO that had a lot of openings up front in J. I placed a bid a couple weeks ago for the lowest bid ($685x2) and today I noticed it was accepted, however AMEX marked this charge as fraudulent. I called AC to let them know that it was an accident and AMEX wanted them to re-run the charge, but now the upgrade is not available to me and they said because I'm within the 72 hour window I cannot do the bid upgrade anymore (not to mention, just waited on hold for an hour). I'm forced now to either ride in a seat I haven't selected back in Economy, or be at the mercy of the LMU price. This is such a bummer. I would have bought a completely different itinerary if I knew I didn't have a good shot at being upgraded. Not to mention, screw AMEX. I know now that I cannot use my Plat card for charges that absolutely must go through on the first try. It wasn't even a spending power thing
Mar 7, 2019, 6:31 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
Sorry but if Amex flags a legitimate charge as fraudulent, then it is their fault. They have to take responsibility for their mistakes.BTW same thing happened to me once. But for a minor, short haul leg on a European airline. And no, amex did not notify me. When I cleaned up the mess, the upgrade was gone.
Mar 7, 2019, 7:09 am
#24
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SJO - MAN - LAX
Programs: MileagePlus Gold, Avis PP, National EE, Lifemiles Silver, ConnectMiles Gold
Posts: 532
I agree with what others have said about calling before hand and letting them know about a large charge coming in.
My last car in the UK I bought new I bought it with an AMEX purchasing card just so I could get the points for the transaction. I called them before hand and told them a large amount was about to be charged and they said they had marked it, even offered to stay on the phone.
It's annoying yes, but worth the hassle.
I actually prefer the way other airlines like COPA do it, where they pre-authorize the charge but only go through if the upgrade is successful.
My last car in the UK I bought new I bought it with an AMEX purchasing card just so I could get the points for the transaction. I called them before hand and told them a large amount was about to be charged and they said they had marked it, even offered to stay on the phone.
It's annoying yes, but worth the hassle.
I actually prefer the way other airlines like COPA do it, where they pre-authorize the charge but only go through if the upgrade is successful.
Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
You may wish this would be true, but what are you suggesting Amex do in this instance?
The cost of Amex eating an actually fraudulent charge is measurable.
The cost of Amex being over-cautious in fraud protection also has measurable costs.
I imagine that they carefully track both sides of the ledger and try to do the best they can.
The cost of Amex eating an actually fraudulent charge is measurable.
The cost of Amex being over-cautious in fraud protection also has measurable costs.
I imagine that they carefully track both sides of the ledger and try to do the best they can.
Mar 7, 2019, 7:36 am
#26
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Canada
Programs: Aeroplan E50/MM, HH gold, Nat Exec Elite, Kimpton Karma
Posts: 2,354
Calling ahead to alert them is best. I’ve done it several times. Interestingly, in the last year both Mastercard and Amex have told me no longer necessarily to call in to advise about upcoming travel and/or expected foreign exchange transactions. My biggest problem with this has not been airlines but paying a foreign conference registration fee for an organization I belong to.
It is a pain when this happens but agree with others it’s for our mutual protection. A while back, used my Amex for a small purchase used it 10 min later for a $20 concert tx. Latter charge declined. Turns out someone got card info (never out of my possession) and was charging all kinds of things in Michigan. I was in California at the time. I’ve found Amex great to deal with on these sorts of things. However, loosing an upgrade because of it is tough.
It is a pain when this happens but agree with others it’s for our mutual protection. A while back, used my Amex for a small purchase used it 10 min later for a $20 concert tx. Latter charge declined. Turns out someone got card info (never out of my possession) and was charging all kinds of things in Michigan. I was in California at the time. I’ve found Amex great to deal with on these sorts of things. However, loosing an upgrade because of it is tough.
Mar 7, 2019, 8:05 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
And for everyone suggesting to call the credit card company, remember, this is essentially a bid process -- you don't know that the charge will go through until you've actually won the upgrade. There would need to be enough of a delay between Plusgrade notifying the user of a successful upgrade bid and the card getting hit with the charge in order for the user to call in and avoid a charge refusal. IME the reverse has been true; I've noticed the charge to my Amex card go through several hours before receiving an email confirmation of the upgrade.
Let's maybe stop blaming the victim here.
Mar 7, 2019, 8:14 am
#28
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE100K, *G, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC, Enterprise Plat
Posts: 671
This is a ridiculous assertion. The "mistake" is obviously that a non-fraudulent charge was classified as fraudulent. Full stop.
And for everyone suggesting to call the credit card company, remember, this is essentially a bid process -- you don't know that the charge will go through until you've actually won the upgrade. There would need to be enough of a delay between Plusgrade notifying the user of a successful upgrade bid and the card getting hit with the charge in order for the user to call in and avoid a charge refusal. IME the reverse has been true; I've noticed the charge to my Amex card go through several hours before receiving an email confirmation of the upgrade.
Let's maybe stop blaming the victim here.
And for everyone suggesting to call the credit card company, remember, this is essentially a bid process -- you don't know that the charge will go through until you've actually won the upgrade. There would need to be enough of a delay between Plusgrade notifying the user of a successful upgrade bid and the card getting hit with the charge in order for the user to call in and avoid a charge refusal. IME the reverse has been true; I've noticed the charge to my Amex card go through several hours before receiving an email confirmation of the upgrade.
Let's maybe stop blaming the victim here.
It’s not perfect but I’d rather the occasional blocked charge than dealing with actual fraud and the nightmare that is.
You can absolutely notify the credit card company that a charge from “Plusgrade” is expected in a certain time window.
Mar 7, 2019, 8:14 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
You may wish this would be true, but what are you suggesting Amex do in this instance?
The cost of Amex eating an actually fraudulent charge is measurable.
The cost of Amex being over-cautious in fraud protection also has measurable costs.
I imagine that they carefully track both sides of the ledger and try to do the best they can.
The cost of Amex eating an actually fraudulent charge is measurable.
The cost of Amex being over-cautious in fraud protection also has measurable costs.
I imagine that they carefully track both sides of the ledger and try to do the best they can.
Uh? That's the problem of Amex. Not the customer. It's not like they can only pay f they feel like. I think I paied for services. So I can expect them.
Mar 7, 2019, 8:20 am
#30
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
Bingo ^