WestJet Trolls AC hard...
Dec 30, 2018, 5:30 pm
#76
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
I kind of feel like I am the prime target for AC. Because of my work I do a TATL or TPAC about once a month and I do TCON/TB 2-3 times a month. All OPM and all on somewhat restricted rules. Giving me eUps and lounge access and priority everything is what keeps me loyal. It makes the whole experience marginally less crappy without costing me a dime.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
Dec 30, 2018, 10:42 pm
#77
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
I kind of feel like I am the prime target for AC. Because of my work I do a TATL or TPAC about once a month and I do TCON/TB 2-3 times a month. All OPM and all on somewhat restricted rules. Giving me eUps and lounge access and priority everything is what keeps me loyal. It makes the whole experience marginally less crappy without costing me a dime.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
When looking at things like lounge access, baggage, priority services, etc., that is all really the icing on the cake that will make me choose AC over the others. Another thing I like is that AC offers products that the others don't like FPs, which add a ton of flexibility to my travel planning while giving me the certainty that I'll get the best fare (at the weekender pass let me do that
).If I may be so bold, I'll go out on a limb and say, the only way WS can compete with AC is with their FFP and they've failed miserably to deliver there. When your biggest competitor beats you on the routes and you rarely offer fares lower then them, what's the point of travelling with WS? The problem is WS is unwilling to make the capital investments required to have a competitive FFP. For them to do that they would need to open WS lounges across Canada, which would cost millions. They would have to offers complimentary/reduced upgrades, free seat assignments, all that ancillary revenue they aren't willing to walk away from. So what you end up with is a half baked FFP (to be generous) and a lot of FFs asking, "what's the point of WS?"
-James
Dec 30, 2018, 11:29 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Sure some of the package can be replicated but certainly not the whole shebang and that's if you're willing to shell out $1,000 annually between the INTL MLL membership and premium credit cards.
-James
Last edited by tcook052; Dec 31, 2018 at 12:25 am Reason: off topic
Dec 31, 2018, 7:14 am
#79
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
James, I think for you having "status" appears to be a personal point of pride whereas I see it as a useful perk that can largely be replicated using other means.
As for domestic flying - if you are based in the west (which I'm guessing you are not) anywhere other than YVR WS has a much better network with larger planes and higher frequency of service. Schedule and avoiding DH3s is a good enough reason to fly.
As for domestic flying - if you are based in the west (which I'm guessing you are not) anywhere other than YVR WS has a much better network with larger planes and higher frequency of service. Schedule and avoiding DH3s is a good enough reason to fly.
Dec 31, 2018, 8:42 am
#80
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 2,997
I kind of feel like I am the prime target for AC. Because of my work I do a TATL or TPAC about once a month and I do TCON/TB 2-3 times a month. All OPM and all on somewhat restricted rules. Giving me eUps and lounge access and priority everything is what keeps me loyal. It makes the whole experience marginally less crappy without costing me a dime.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
WS holds zero interest for me. Why would someone on OPM care about WS dollars? I don't travel for leisure much, and when I do I have AE miles out the wazoo.
AC is doing it right for this target audience and I don't see them losing much market share of THIS audience to WS. Ever.
While I'm glad it works for you, AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
Dec 31, 2018, 8:55 am
#81
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,346
I used to feel I was a decent target for AC too, traveling domestic or TB a couple of times a month, TATL maybe 4 or 5 times a year and TPAC maybe two or three times a year. In other words, a pretty typical E50 - E75. But with imposing harsh co-pay fees to upgrade on the long hauls, stiffing me with rouge on pretty well all TB flights and all of their other "enhancements" AC hasn't done anything to earn my loyalty. If anything, they've gone out of their way to send me looking at other options. I couldn't care less about Westjet dollars either. But where I would once blindly book on AC without a second thought, I'm now happy to give business to WS or DL if it means a better experience ... like flying in first on DL for the same cost as Flex on AC, or simply being able to avoid the sardine can that is rouge.
While I'm glad it works for you, AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
While I'm glad it works for you, AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
Dec 31, 2018, 10:11 am
#82
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
I used to feel I was a decent target for AC too, traveling domestic or TB a couple of times a month, TATL maybe 4 or 5 times a year and TPAC maybe two or three times a year. In other words, a pretty typical E50 - E75. But with imposing harsh co-pay fees to upgrade on the long hauls, stiffing me with rouge on pretty well all TB flights and all of their other "enhancements" AC hasn't done anything to earn my loyalty. If anything, they've gone out of their way to send me looking at other options. I couldn't care less about Westjet dollars either. But where I would once blindly book on AC without a second thought, I'm now happy to give business to WS or DL if it means a better experience ... like flying in first on DL for the same cost as Flex on AC, or simply being able to avoid the sardine can that is rouge.
While I'm glad it works for you, AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
While I'm glad it works for you, AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
I end up on DL for about 10 segments a year - hard to justify using anyone but when flying BWI/YVR-MSP. I don't have a strong feeling about them one way or the other - the experience is not as good as AC or UA, but I wouldn't expect it to be given it is a Skyteam line.
Dec 31, 2018, 10:13 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Dec 31, 2018, 1:09 pm
#84
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYC / random hotel in YYZ
Programs: Back of the bus
Posts: 922
Flying out of YVR has allowed me to avoid Rouge - and I mean I have literally never been on a Rouge aircraft. Admittedly there have been a couple of times that took some careful route planning.
I end up on DL for about 10 segments a year - hard to justify using anyone but when flying BWI/YVR-MSP. I don't have a strong feeling about them one way or the other - the experience is not as good as AC or UA, but I wouldn't expect it to be given it is a Skyteam line.
I end up on DL for about 10 segments a year - hard to justify using anyone but when flying BWI/YVR-MSP. I don't have a strong feeling about them one way or the other - the experience is not as good as AC or UA, but I wouldn't expect it to be given it is a Skyteam line.
The year I did the status match with them, I was comped to instant E50 equivalent, got auto upgrades on 3/4 of the flights I flew and qualified for the next year pretty quick. Again, this was on routes specific to DL where A/C just wasn't as convenient (ie, via MSP to other cities in the US with stops in MSP for work). If you are flexible on schedule / timings you can game the upgrades pretty well.
Dec 31, 2018, 1:18 pm
#85
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
DL will status match and it might be worth taking for the year or so to have something to work with. They are pretty good as well about comp upgrades on certain routes as well as moving you to + seating, proactiveness on late flights, rebooks, etc.
The year I did the status match with them, I was comped to instant E50 equivalent, got auto upgrades on 3/4 of the flights I flew and qualified for the next year pretty quick. Again, this was on routes specific to DL where A/C just wasn't as convenient (ie, via MSP to other cities in the US with stops in MSP for work). If you are flexible on schedule / timings you can game the upgrades pretty well.
The year I did the status match with them, I was comped to instant E50 equivalent, got auto upgrades on 3/4 of the flights I flew and qualified for the next year pretty quick. Again, this was on routes specific to DL where A/C just wasn't as convenient (ie, via MSP to other cities in the US with stops in MSP for work). If you are flexible on schedule / timings you can game the upgrades pretty well.
-James
Jan 2, 2019, 2:02 am
#87
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
AC (and other airlines) need to figure out who's business they're trying to win, and develop programs (note plural tense) that will achieve that.
...
The person traveling to Australia a couple of times a year in full-fare paid J is simply not a frequent flier. The poor sod riding an RJ or turboprop a couple of times a week on short hauls, perhaps staying in a Hampton Inn because that's the best there is at the destination, is. They're two completely different customers, and it is a colossal mistake for airlines to try to appeal to both with the same vehicle (i.e. their FFP). Little wonder that neither cusomer group seem impressed with the value props being presented.
This is marketing 101, but amazingly, more and more airlines seem to be missing it altogether.
...
The person traveling to Australia a couple of times a year in full-fare paid J is simply not a frequent flier. The poor sod riding an RJ or turboprop a couple of times a week on short hauls, perhaps staying in a Hampton Inn because that's the best there is at the destination, is. They're two completely different customers, and it is a colossal mistake for airlines to try to appeal to both with the same vehicle (i.e. their FFP). Little wonder that neither cusomer group seem impressed with the value props being presented.
This is marketing 101, but amazingly, more and more airlines seem to be missing it altogether.
I would even take modestly better lounge “food” options... how about a simple chicken soup, rice, veggie that doesn’t have a bunch of common allergens and taste like it’s made en masse for a ho-hum cafeteria (so I hear).
FYI I’m one of those on turboprops most of the time, often 4 segment trips - Hardly “an elite experience”, and a Hampton Inn would be a palace compared to some of the places I have for options!
a pretty typical E50 - E75. But with imposing harsh co-pay fees to upgrade on the long hauls, stiffing me with rouge on pretty well all TB flights and all of their other "enhancements" AC hasn't done anything to earn my loyalty. If anything, they've gone out of their way to send me looking at other options.
<snip>...AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
<snip>...AC sure didn't do it right for THIS target audience. And by the number of Attitude bag tags I see in YYZ T3 these days, they have indeed lost at least some market share to other carriers. That's why they're trolling AC Elites the way that they are.
The E50K sitting next to me in the lounge may make 5x the profit for AC per flight (eg their TPAC vs my short haul), but I’m probably on 3x or more flights which quickly narrows the profit gap. When they get a handful of upgrades worth infinitely more in $ and comfort value than anything I receive, it’s no wonder my loyalty is dramatically diminished.
Last edited by eracerblue; Jan 2, 2019 at 2:17 am
Jan 2, 2019, 2:35 am
#88
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Staying somewhat on topic, one thing to take into account is WS's new international J product which I believe will be launched soon. Would this have much of an impact on AC's premium pax revenue for the routes WS flies with this? If I were the high spend pax based out of YYZ who flies regularly to London and prefer the lie-flat non-stop service only AC has offered so far, I may very well take a look at WS's offering. If they could deliver a J experience that is somewhat compelling with lie flat seats that don't turn into park benches, then hey, maybe I'll move over to WS. At that point perhaps AC will be forced to either fix their "hard" product or lower their J fares to remain competitive to WS.
All that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if WS prices their international J product competitively with AC (read the exact friggin' price). At which point the only benefit would be working lie flat seats. At which point who would want to ditch AC for working lie flat seats?! Wait a minute...
-James
All that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if WS prices their international J product competitively with AC (read the exact friggin' price). At which point the only benefit would be working lie flat seats. At which point who would want to ditch AC for working lie flat seats?! Wait a minute...
-James
Jan 2, 2019, 1:04 pm
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Jan 2, 2019, 3:03 pm
#90
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Which came first - the chicken or the egg?
The first post in the deflategate thread is dated November 2017. That leads me to believe the problem first occured much earlier than that.
Makes one wonder how hard they are working on getting it fixed.
Moreover rather than working on getting it fixed why not go directly to getting it fixed?
The first post in the deflategate thread is dated November 2017. That leads me to believe the problem first occured much earlier than that.
Makes one wonder how hard they are working on getting it fixed.
Moreover rather than working on getting it fixed why not go directly to getting it fixed?