dulciusexasperis

What, you weren't satisfied with saying once, 'you can just pay more', you needed to say it again?

OK, again, no I can't just pay more.

RangerNS

You cite only a single example. Once, Toronto to London would have required stopping in Gander and Shannon. Which is great if you want to go to Gander or Shannon.

Your particular desirous flight, given today's PAX desires, aircraft fleet, gas prices, landing rights and dozens of other considerations simply is no longer reasonable for AC to fly. If it was, they would. And you would have a small seat and no free food and no free luggage because its 2018..

dulciusexasperis

The only worthwhile comment there hirohito888 is your last paragraph. You are correct, the product pretty much no longer exists and the airlines no longer bother to cater to the niche market it now represents. But I disagree that it is surprising. There's nothing surprising about the middle market being squeezed out in favour of cheap seats. It's been going on for many years now. Ever since the first airline reduced a seat pitch in Economy, that was the first step backwards.

dulciusexasperis

Fine RangerNS, carry on being happy to see air travel becoming more and more like getting on a Public Transport bus or subway. When they get to loading passengers on commuter flights (say under an hour) in 'standing room', maybe you'll begin to wonder if this is a good thing.

I can picture it now, my flight from London, Ontario to Toronto is 40 minutes. You can sit for $300 or stand in the aisle and hold on to a pole for $200. Now that's progress for you.

rankourabu

Sure it does - there are plenty of airlines that provide a high quality product, certainly higher quality than Air Canada, at a much lower price. Both economy and premium.

hirohito888

It's still not clear which "middle market" the airline needs to cater to, given that there are options and add-ons for just about everything. And it's untrue that reducing seat pitch in Y was a step backwards. A lot of what was cut back then is now available to purchase. While I'm less familiar with AC, take AA for example who introduced "More room throughout coach" in 2000, then removed MRTC in 2003, and only to re-introduce Main Cabin Extra in 2012. UA has had E+ for almost 2 decades, DL added comfort+ in 2011.

NoTravelIsFree

You had a choice, it is incorrect to say you were left with no choice. You made the choice not to book earlier - that choice narrowed your options and that is not the airlines fault. They had a product you would have booked but you missed the boat by not being flexible on booking more than 8 weeks in advance. I'm not sure why you would not want to be flexible considering you only like to book flexible tickets. Seems an odd choice to make.

There is a lot of "I" in your posts. Clearly what you want is not the same as what others want and it sounds like there are more of them than you. Calling others foolish because they do not have the same needs or desires as you seems very arrogant.

jc94

I actually LIKE having to pay for a seat selection / preferred seating as it means I can almost (except when AC changes planes and neglects to inform you) always get one. Sure if I want the leg room it costs me $100/$200 or whatever on a long haul which is a significant chunk but it beats turning up to the airport (or these days, OLCI - when it works) just before your flight and finding the only available seats are middle ones with no leg room and you're separated from your friend / significant other.

I dislike buying a ticket that may not allow me to purchase these additions at a later date (I guess I could upfare, although we're not yet sure if this is allowed), and not that this may not be made apparent until far too late. AC may have a special website page that shows up booking Economy Basic warning me about this but this page doesn't exist on mobile. At least not on the iPhone app. I'm pretty sure with UA's BE you can't do anything with the ticket, but you also don't get bin access so perhaps I can't compare.

All that said, I can now see on PC that BE fares offer preferred seats for TWICE the price ($40-42 vs $20-21 with Tango, and $15-16 with Flex); at least on the YEG YVR that's the only route I've found offering it. So BE is $31 cheaper, and a preferred seat costs $20 more. It could be it's always $20 more, but I doubt it. So are 126 miles worth $31? Are they worth $11. Is that one extra segment worth $31/11. This of course requires one to hit the little View Seats link and click around; an option which is only available (at best, given it doesn't always work) on the website.

yytleisure

I am quite happy to pay less. I like being able to take 4 trips a year instead of 2 because cheap airfares have allowed that. They give me plenty of choice to buy up to more comfort. I would totally consider standing class depending on the VALUE it delivers TO ME personally. I believe that most airlines are contemptible companies, but that doesn't have to mean I can't extract what fits my needs from them for a decent price.

I'm hearing: I like paying more to a company that doesn't offer what I need. I blame everyone but myself for the problems with the purchase of my plane tickets. I think everyone who disagrees with me is foolish and delusional.

Btw your view/opinion is quite valid and no one with any sense will deny you that. But you refuse to see others POV so why should we see yours? Perhaps flying private is the answer for you.

Ber2dca

The paranoid traveler already searches on one machine on one network and books on another machine on a separate network.

Handcake

So you are blaming the people. Airlines adapt to what the people want.

Do you blame people also for why an iPhone is so expensive compared to an Android phone?

Companies do what they can get away with and what people are willing to tolerate.

A bigger economic factor that comes into play is: why do people want fares to be so cheap? I think the answer is that the vast majority of those traveling are on a strict budget. If you are flying a family of 4 somewhere, the costs can really add up.

I personally haven't been on a Rouge flight, but I have heard how they can be terrible. My guess again, is people want cheap. I work with a lot of those people that will ALWAYS fly the cheapest possible option.

I don't know if it makes sense to blame people for being cheap? I'm confused there.

It sounds like a dream to have different types of economy seats, but probably a nightmare for configuration and pricing. I'm happy with an economy, PE and J on Air Canada. Perhaps it is Rouge that might have to change, but it seems most people that fly that want the cheapest economy seats, so not sure if that will help you.

As others have said, you also have the option to not fly AC.

dulciusexasperis

OK people, this topic is done and just going round in circles now.

jc94

Stranger

To be fair, all these "options" do not really make the flying economy experience anywhere near what it was in the good old days.

Arguably, PY does, more or less. More in some ways, less in some others.

And yes, some of us have fond memories. Such as LH, FRA-ZRH-Casablanca-GIG-VCP. In Y of course. When food in Y was better than today in J. But then, so was price.

Real issue i that "business travelers" who were in the driver seat still not that long ago are now caught in the middle. But yes, either they should blame their employers, or they should recognize that given how well they are paid they better suffer in silence.

JustSomeGuy1978

for every passenger like yourself there is another passenger who, does not check a bag, eats before flying so wont eat the catered food, and brings their own entertainment so will not need the earphones/IFE. This passenger demands that all the above be unbundled from the price of theor ticket since they will not use the service, and demands a cheaper flighr.

since the general flying public responds strongly to price the unbundling passenger wins out and you get what we have today.