ACYYZ/SD

It does not mean that the airline (NZ) will allot those seats for frequent flyer redemption.

trooper

But you had paid AEROPLAN surely? Not NZ? Whatever payment occurred FROM Aeroplan to NZ is between them.... but as far as NZ was concerned Aeroplan had booked you an Economy seat... right? It may seem strange to folks from North America but aircraft in other parts of the world ROUTINELY fly with empty J seats...sometimes a lot of them....

escape4

Sure, it's up to them to manage it as they see fit. I do not think they were wrong to deny me a J seat. But other airlines in the world decide to be more flexible in this situation, which is their prerogative as well.

I paid Aeroplan the J level of mileage, and if NZ had J award seats available at time of booking my mileage requirement would have been the same and I would have had the J seat. Hence in my mind I had already paid the miles required for a J seat. I just accepted that I might travel in Y for that mileage level, and this is what ended up happening. That is fine. I am just noting how NZ handles these situations for the benefit of others.

When the day of flight comes, lots of J seats are available and it's still not possible to get a J seat and instead they want money for it. So basically NZ is being stingy with J seat awards and will try to get money at the airport for it if you ask, after the passenger already paid J mileage. Maybe that's just me, but no thanks.

Flying with empty J seats and not giving free upgrades to passengers is one thing. But denying a passenger a J seat when that person already paid J-mileage level is not exactly the same.

trooper

And had you been redeeming NZ Airpoints I would agree with you...but all NZ was aware of was AEROPLANs economy booking for you......How would they even KNOW you'd paid Aeroplan for J??

escape4

They looked at my ticket and they could see all flight segments including the 4 with SQ in business class. So they knew I paid for J.

D582

escape4

Am I looking at this from the wrong angle, or is the situation even worse than I thought? So you basically have an airline (NZ) hungry for revenue and trying to upsell a Y-couch seat when they fully understand that the customer has paid for a J mileage award. NZ was only "paid" Y for the flight segment by Aeroplan, the traveller asks if he can have J seats (there are lots available on the day of the flight), so all they had to do was release a couple of J seats into I inventory, then we get those seats for no extra charge, and NZ then gets "paid" for J rather than for Y. Everybody wins, no? Except for Aeroplan I guess, but there were prepared to pay SQ and NZ for J all the way to begin with so I am not sure they would have any issue with the situation.

Instead NZ tries to push a Y-couch seat which they would probably get less revenue for than the increase from Y to J (although I am not sure about this, I don't know how much they get paid).

I realize it might not be that straightforward to simply release an "i" seat the day of the flight, but if I was a customer-oriented business owner it seems that I would want my airline to do such things for passengers.

It was a 5-hour day flight so no big deal flying in Y (and we ended up having a row of 4 seats only for the 2 of us so it was comfortable), unlike some long-haul flights where I care more about J because I want to sleep. But I am bringing this up more for the purpose of the discussion rather than a complaint that I cannot get over with.

D582

Instead NZ tries to push a Y-couch seat which they would probably get less revenue for than the increase from Y to J (although I am not sure about this, I don't know how much they get paid).

I realize it might not be that straightforward to simply release an "i" seat the day of the flight, but if I was a customer-oriented business owner it seems that I would want my airline to do such things for passengers.[/quote]

You would have to talk to NZ's revenue and yield management department about that. Releasing seats into I means anyone from any *A FFP can theoretically book them. They are 'paid' more for J than Y rewards, but they are almost certainly making more money by selling an upgrade to a SkyCouch, PY, or J, from you or from another customer. NZ also has a Bid Upgrade programme (similar to AC) that allows customers to go from Y to PY or PY to J and they accept this up to the day of the flight. They would much rather do this than offer seats to FFP rewards.

The customer service staff can be empathetic to you when they see the other segments in J, but it really makes no difference to NZ how AC's FFP is managed and how they price, market, and sell rewards. Even NZ's own FFP, Airpoints, works totally different from AC.

Your real complaint is with how Aeroplan prices rewards whereby if 1 segment is in J, the entire reward uses J-level miles, even if that segment is 1 hour followed by a 12 hour long haul flight.

aznfreak007

your NZ flight coupon is for an economy seat, your J ticket is irrelevant to NZ. If you want to maximize your utility, you should have booked an itinerary where I class is available for all of your segments.

Second, NZ gets more revenue for a business class coupon, but is that marginal revenue important to NZ? one has to factor in the cost of IRROPS, the cost to insure revenue integrity, the cost for marginalizing their own frequent flyer program, etc. Just looking at the frequent flyer program's perspective, Aeroplan's classic reward needs only a fixed amount of points to each predefined area, whereas NZ's Airpoints Dollars is equal to one NZ dollar. If I were Air NZ's management, I would not make it easy for star partner redeeming on NZ that easily otherwise this would encourage people participating other star program while redeeming on NZ. (ex: earning under United's MileagePlus, you just need to fly 4 segments on United which is easy and reach the required PQM or PQS on any star partner, it's very easy to qualify. also, airline makes lots of money with their affiliated credit card. they do not want to lose this revenue stream)

Also, "if i was a customer-oriented business owner it seems that i would want my airline to do such things for passengers", since you've booked air NZ using points from star partner, clearly you're not their loyal customer and i don't see why Air NZ needs to give you any favor.

Air NZ also needs to protect their revenue integrity, it is much easier to restrict supply in order to make additional profit then to cut price and race to the bottom. If people can access business class too easily nobody would buy them with real money.

abrandnewcar

When does AC start flying YVR-AKL ?

Bohemian1

Hopefully no time soon. I like flying on NZ.

abrandnewcar

Funny thing. A friend just got hired at AC and was given a self study airport code list of all destinations served by AC metal and 4 others not served. Those 4 were AKL, CPT, JNB and HRE.

Announcements coming soon ?

drvannostren

For one thing, it's always in AP's interest to sell you seats that they'll make more money off, IE: the scam charge seats. I'm not sure exactly how the money changes hands, but they'll always show you AC/LH first.

Second, good luck with NZ, there's barely award space available and their ticket prices also are generally pretty damned high, which is why I'm so surprised at the flight loads. But hey, if you can pull this off, it's a nice airline to fly.

Bohemian1

Interesting.

Worth some inevitable FT speculation, perhaps on a another thread.

24left

Amusing, especially given the recent discussion in tho other thread and as relates to destinations like SIN, BKK, and so on


Indeed

Possible New Long Haul Air Canada Routes in the next 5 years


To which I will add interesting comments I heard from NZ crew on recent flights to and from AKL. It seems the AKL-YVR flights are a major bucket of bucks for NZ. Extremely profitable.

If NZ can sell any and all of those seats on that route, for sure they will never make them available on miles/points.

I also agree with posts from @D582 and @aznfreak007

As for OP's situation and buying an Aeroplan ticket and paying J miles for an itinerary with a Y component, I understand your situation but my personal experiences are that NZ TPAC flights are not always available and all of the recent ones I've found and booked were short lead times and clearly, NZ decided to release a few to *A etc. I realize others think differently but I would never book an initial itinerary with J and Y mixed together. I don't like the odds. But that's me.