Allow extra time when flying to the U.S. - July 14
Jul 18, 2017, 10:47 pm
#31
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
The security protocol is in its early days of application and until it is applied for some time there will be some inconsistencies. The expectations of an exact experience at all airports is unreasonable. When I look at my employer's IT personnel, they do not apply policy consistently, despite having gone through multiple courses and training sessions.
The fact of the matter is that the bomb which exploded onboard Daalo Airlines' Somalia flight was reasonably believed to have been a lap top explosive device. It has also been established that ISIS/ISIL/Daesh or whatever the new PC name for them is used the university engineering facilities and the airport security devices that they had captured in Iraq to research and development new instruments of carnage using electronic devices. The Iraqis did not make this up, and warned the UK and USA what was found.This was verified by multiple security agencies.
I appreciate that there are some people who object to the new screening procedures. Instead of whinging and complaining, lobby your government to allow a different approach to screening of pax and a more rigorous approach to dealing with people who are in Canada or transiting Canada who are not of peaceful intent. This option is not politically correct, but would be more effective and not collectively punish those who are least likely to engage in terrorism.
At the end of the day, the threat is legitimate and has been verified. I don't like being delayed either, but this is the reality, particularly when there are a large number of people who are US and EU nationals who are supporters of groups who wish to set off an explosive device. I also remind some that Canada is home to a diverse group of murderers and criminals from around the world, including countries far away from current conflict zones. Co-operate with CATSA and we will all get through faster.
The fact of the matter is that the bomb which exploded onboard Daalo Airlines' Somalia flight was reasonably believed to have been a lap top explosive device. It has also been established that ISIS/ISIL/Daesh or whatever the new PC name for them is used the university engineering facilities and the airport security devices that they had captured in Iraq to research and development new instruments of carnage using electronic devices. The Iraqis did not make this up, and warned the UK and USA what was found.This was verified by multiple security agencies.
I appreciate that there are some people who object to the new screening procedures. Instead of whinging and complaining, lobby your government to allow a different approach to screening of pax and a more rigorous approach to dealing with people who are in Canada or transiting Canada who are not of peaceful intent. This option is not politically correct, but would be more effective and not collectively punish those who are least likely to engage in terrorism.
At the end of the day, the threat is legitimate and has been verified. I don't like being delayed either, but this is the reality, particularly when there are a large number of people who are US and EU nationals who are supporters of groups who wish to set off an explosive device. I also remind some that Canada is home to a diverse group of murderers and criminals from around the world, including countries far away from current conflict zones. Co-operate with CATSA and we will all get through faster.
Jul 18, 2017, 10:57 pm
#32
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,916
I appreciate that there are some people who object to the new screening procedures. Instead of whinging and complaining, lobby your government to allow a different approach to screening of pax and a more rigorous approach to dealing with people who are in Canada or transiting Canada who are not of peaceful intent. This option is not politically correct, but would be more effective and not collectively punish those who are least likely to engage in terrorism.
I don't object to the politically incorrect screening approach that might actually do some good.
There were at least 155 Americans killed by police officers in the United States in 2011. That means that you were more than 9 times more likely to be killed by a law enforcement officer than by a terrorist.
Last edited by Sopwith; Jul 18, 2017 at 11:08 pm
Jul 18, 2017, 11:12 pm
#33
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,331
What percentage of those 155 were in the middle of committing or fleeing from a crime? I'm not saying that someone stealing a pack of gum deserves to be shot, but death by cop while fleeing a drug deal is not nearly the same thing as death by terrorist.
Jul 19, 2017, 7:38 am
#34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
I don't object to the inspection being as thorough as it needs to be.
I don't understand the queueing math that says people need to arrive so much earlier though. The actual duration of screening is not all that much longer than presently. If they are not putting through as many screen-ees per hour as are taking off in airplanes, they are just building a glut of angry people on the unsterile side. Sometimes the purpose of a queue is to build excitement (e.g., roller coaster). Other times, the purpose of a queue is to buffer traffic to avoid idle servers (e.g., doctor's office). Neither of those apply here. The number of servers should be provided sufficient to the passengers needing to be screened and there should not be any extra wait. (The operative word being "should".)
I don't understand the queueing math that says people need to arrive so much earlier though. The actual duration of screening is not all that much longer than presently. If they are not putting through as many screen-ees per hour as are taking off in airplanes, they are just building a glut of angry people on the unsterile side. Sometimes the purpose of a queue is to build excitement (e.g., roller coaster). Other times, the purpose of a queue is to buffer traffic to avoid idle servers (e.g., doctor's office). Neither of those apply here. The number of servers should be provided sufficient to the passengers needing to be screened and there should not be any extra wait. (The operative word being "should".)
Jul 19, 2017, 7:52 am
#35
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Jul 19, 2017, 8:07 am
#36
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC Altitude 35K, AA, Marriott Silver Elite, NEXUS
Posts: 357
and the one that bugs the hell out of me at YYZ...why have a Nexus line that is continually filled by CATSA with those that do not have it (yes i know it is so they can save money and not have to open additional lines)...but then why even bother offering it????
Jul 19, 2017, 8:35 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YSB & YAM, Northern Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG Gold Elite, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 1,100
More reinforcement for avoiding transiting the US unnecessarily!
The old days when passengers could freely transit one country en-route to a third country have long gone, at least as far as going via the US or Canada.
Now unfortunately things have become even more complicated where the US is concerned. No more checking baggage through to the final destination without inspection at the connecting airport.
A little understood fact is that even passengers on a flight just making a scheduled stop in the US mainland must disembark, clear customs and immigration before re-boarding the plane to continue their journey!
At one time Canadians travelled via the US because of cheaper fares but it is no longer worth the hassles involved - and for Americans travelling via Canada is unfortunately no better!
Now unfortunately things have become even more complicated where the US is concerned. No more checking baggage through to the final destination without inspection at the connecting airport.
A little understood fact is that even passengers on a flight just making a scheduled stop in the US mainland must disembark, clear customs and immigration before re-boarding the plane to continue their journey!
At one time Canadians travelled via the US because of cheaper fares but it is no longer worth the hassles involved - and for Americans travelling via Canada is unfortunately no better!
Jul 19, 2017, 9:29 am
#38
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Here is a data point that you folks may find interesting. At 11:13 this morning, I entered the YYZ TB line, prior to security. I entered the Nexus line and proceeded to security screening. CATSA has now instituted the high efficiency security with multiple stations producing bins to put on the conveyer, similar to YYC TB. It does seem to work better. The lap top comes out, but small liquids can remain in the bag. By the time I got through security, Customs and Immigration, rode the elevator to the TB MLL, entered the MLL, walked to the business area, turned on this computer and started this post, it was 11:25. So 12 minutes for the entire process.
Jul 19, 2017, 9:59 am
#39
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
A little understood fact is that even passengers on a flight just making a scheduled stop in the US mainland must disembark, clear customs and immigration before re-boarding the plane to continue their journey!
At one time Canadians travelled via the US because of cheaper fares but it is no longer worth the hassles involved - and for Americans travelling via Canada is unfortunately no better!
Here is a data point that you folks may find interesting. At 11:13 this morning, I entered the YYZ TB line, prior to security. I entered the Nexus line and proceeded to security screening. CATSA has now instituted the high efficiency security with multiple stations producing bins to put on the conveyer, similar to YYC TB. It does seem to work better. The lap top comes out, but small liquids can remain in the bag. By the time I got through security, Customs and Immigration, rode the elevator to the TB MLL, entered the MLL, walked to the business area, turned on this computer and started this post, it was 11:25. So 12 minutes for the entire process.
Jul 19, 2017, 11:35 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PDX
Programs: AS, DL, UA, AC, Nexus, TSA Pre
Posts: 364
Nexus Security Lines Affected?
Anyone know if these changes will affect the security lines for Nexus holders? I'm interested reports of changes (or lack thereof) or longer screening times through the Nexus security lines to USA flights, especially at YYZ.
nrg
nrg
Jul 19, 2017, 11:38 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Jul 19, 2017, 12:29 pm
#43
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
Nice!
I've always found YYZ TB painfully slow so let's hope the improvements are permanent.
YVR TB still continues to be 'protocol roulette' where you don't know how much of a TSA Pre-like experience (if any) you are going to get on a day to day basis.
I've always found YYZ TB painfully slow so let's hope the improvements are permanent.
YVR TB still continues to be 'protocol roulette' where you don't know how much of a TSA Pre-like experience (if any) you are going to get on a day to day basis.
Jul 19, 2017, 12:55 pm
#44
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,104
Like many other folks say when it comes to airline security: there's theatre, and there's Israel.
Jul 19, 2017, 2:21 pm
#45
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,426
[QUOTE=Sopwith;28578026]I don't object to the screening procedures, new or not. I object to the absurdity behind them. I object to the inconsistency in how they are applied. And I really object to the intellectually deficient beings who apply them.
I don't object to the politically incorrect screening approach that might actually do some good.
Please. I do object to the politically incorrect screening approach. I had enough of that after 9/11. Apply the procedure to everyone equitably and efficiently. I have zero confidence in TSA or CATSA using a Israel style approach. CBP does have the option to ask whatever they want and screen whatever they want, no need to add TSA/CATSA to the inquisition.
I don't object to the politically incorrect screening approach that might actually do some good.
Please. I do object to the politically incorrect screening approach. I had enough of that after 9/11. Apply the procedure to everyone equitably and efficiently. I have zero confidence in TSA or CATSA using a Israel style approach. CBP does have the option to ask whatever they want and screen whatever they want, no need to add TSA/CATSA to the inquisition.