YYCCL3

I really can't stand AC, avoid flying with them for a variety of reasons, and I usually laugh with glee when I see the articles whereby someone's calling them out for the incidents like bumping someone from a flight because they waited too long at the check-in line at YYZ, agents are blatantly rude to customers, etc. But I think this one is a bit absurd:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-...line-1.4060820

It appears that they were a victim of IDB, were compensated; they did lose a day of their vacation but it made their flights free! Yeesh!!

YYT82

In this article, overbooking was mentioned as the cause of their denied boarding. It also cited a Financial Post business and travel columnist on airlines overbooking to hedge against no-shows as they want planes to be as full as possible. Well, that's not the only reason, since if a pax doesn't show up for the flight s/he is confirmed on, the ticket is forfeited and airlines aren't actually at a loss for that seat. The real factors which I constantly see people (including here on FT) miss are the fully refundable tickets. Since there are tons of people who buy these refundable tickets, they can always change to an earlier or later flight or just outright cancel altogether without penalty on short notices (and we also need to keep in mind that IRROPS protection comes into play on the day of travel as well), how do the airlines hedge against that effectively without resorting to overbooking?

People want airlines to stop overbooking, airlines will just make all tickets non-refundable. Sorry, but I don't think that's what many of us want. We are willing to pay extra for flexibility, but we all understand that this may come at the expense to others who buy cheaper fares.

smallmj

The article is actually better than the previous "non-story" in that it gives advice on how to reduce chances of being bumped: Check in online or pay for seat selection. It also has the passenger's advice of don't fly an airline that intentionally overbooks.

I liked the nugget of info that the passenger try OLCI, but the site didn't work.

Seat13F_AC_CRJ

This article failed to mention whether or not they checked in on-line in advance.
--
13F

smallmj

No, at the end of the article it says that they tried OLCI, but the site didn't work.

YYC009

It did say that they did not checkin online.

smallmj

I wonder if CBC is starting a crusade against overbooking? Maybe a CBC exec's kid got bumped recently....

hydrogen

Probably has stock in WS...

mapleg

It is good that people with their own Wikipedia listing get to complain about their 12 hour delay and compensation of over $1600. Note that he also writes a local newspaper column, hence the ability to call CBC and get an article written about his trials and tribulations.

Next thing you know, we will be reading about him in the Canadian Celebrities spotted thread.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Crone

Nazdoom

These stories get a lot of hate and rolled eyes from FlyerTalk, where the average user knows a thing or two about airlines, but it's important to remember the lay person doesn't understand much about overbooking (many don't know it occurs at all). These stories, albeit fluff at best, are things that lay people would want to know. Sort of like a PSA campaign.

I don't think they deserve as much hate as they get on FT. Popular press generally does a poor job of explaining most fields at any meaningful level (IT and hackers, scientific studies and results, contrasting economic theories, etc). I think the general public doesn't care about the economic necessity of overbooking as much as they care about travel being disrupted through no fault of their own.

RatherBeInYOW

Yup, and the general public rarely flies and doesn't understand why purchasing a ticket doesn't guarantee them a seat the same way that purchasing a ticket for anything else in life (the movies, the ballet, the cruise they are heading on, etc.) does. And of course these zero status Tango fare late check-in general public people are the first ones to get IDBed.

I watched it happen in front of my eyes last week. I'm standby trying to catch an earlier flight from a small southern US airport to IAH on United. I'm standing at the gate watching boarding waiting to see if I'll get a seat when a lady presents her boarding pass and is told to stand aside because she doesn't have a seat. She comes and stands by me and is very polite but very confused - "I haven't flown in 10 years ... I bought this ticket 6 months ago ... why don't I have a seat ... am I not going to be able to fly today ... what is going to happen?". I try to explain to her what is going on, and in the end she and I grab the last 2 seats on the plane, so all is well that ends well.

No doubt this thread will be filled with FTers making fun of the passengers and the CBC for reporting this. I'll think of that poor confused lady in the airport this week, and how sorry I felt for her that she had checked in fairly late at the airport (but still ahead of the cutoff) and she almost didn't get on because the plane got filled up with Delta IROPS impacted pax that grabbed confirmed seats ahead of her. Can I really expect that she should have understood what was happening? If she had been IDBed and made a fuss would I be surprised, even if she was given proper compensation?

YYT82

Going back to my earlier point about making all tickets non-refundable if you want airlines to stop overbooking - see WS. They advertise that they don't oversell, but their Plus fare is the only refundable fare to the original form of payment (with conditions attached - meaning a service charge). And even for the Plus fare, if you cancel within two hours of departure, the payment is forfeited. Compare this to AC who is known to always overbook. I can get a full refund on Latitude or Flexible J fares even if I cancel within two hours of departure (by contacting refund services), and I can even get partial refunds back to the original form of payment if my flight routing gets disrupted by IRROPS. I would rather take this any day over the fare structure at WS.

I will agree that one thing AC needs to do better is to have a big pop-up warning when people book Tango like "By clicking the purchase button, you agree to be bumped from your reserved flight should the airline require your seat(s) for operational reasons and compensation will be in accordance with guidelines set forth by applicable regulations."

alc

It actually might be good for have these "non-story" as much as we can. This will make AC need to improve their service. Also, perhaps more (and hopefully) better promotion for those that continue fly AC

canopus27

Well, CBC managed to find someone for this story who was actually bumped (unlike the other story) ... so at least this is progress towards real news.

And I am sympathetic to the passengers ... even if their flight ended up being free, they lost a day's vacation and that sucks.

I do wonder if AC could do more to find passengers who would be happy to trade off time for dollars. I know they have a call for volunteers at the gate, but there's no guarantee that everyone would hear or respond to that ... we all know what a zoo it can be just before boarding.

Just as AC lets passengers bid for upgrades, I wonder if they could have some sort of system whereby AC could bid for what they'd offer in return for taking a later (or just different) flight.

There's always going to be a chance of unhappy customers ... but if they expanded the range of what they offered (for example, 20 eUpgrade points, perhaps double AQM for the flight ... maybe a year of MLL access) and more importantly, found the people who would be happy taking that payoff - then I think they'd have far fewer unhappy customers.

I don't imagine that the CBC would suddenly start reporting on customers who were happy ... happy customers don't seem to be a staple on CBC ... but look at some of the comments above; if you can match the right payoff to the right person, then you won't get a complaint (and you might even make someone happy).

I'm flying to ATL later today, and I can already tell the flight is oversold. If AC threw 20 eupgrades my way, I would be very happy to take a later/different flight.

Nazdoom

I'd love to see that incorporated into check-in in a similar way it offers LMUs. Considering they (now?) can allow for SDC thru the app and website for rapidair, the hard part of the tech is already there (the rebooking people part).