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Yes but you still have to pay...I realize it's refundable but your statement was that one doesn't have to buy a seat on AC...you still have to payOriginally Posted by Wpgjetse
Lat or full J
I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this, as someone who worked under WS/AC and is now an AC FF.
AC follows the "doors closed at T-15" or at least they try to. I know I ran onto a plane one day as last call and door close was about to happen, then when I sat down realized I still had 10 minutes to pushback. WS doesn't really do this, they do in a way but they try to be really friendly about it.
WS will also let people check in, WITH bags, mere minutes before pushback. At YVR we constantly had people late check-in. Late is defined as anything less than 45 minutes prior of course. AC flat out will not let me check a bag when this happens (though I can usually get the GC to just do it, so I'm not sure why they are such sticklers), but WS takes it too far. We'd be 20 minutes to pushback and have 5-6 more bags being sent down. WS always says "the passengers have been advised their bags might not make it". Basically we found a few too often those bags would miss then WS would b**ch at us about why they didn't make it. So we kinda just told them eventually, you send them down at your own risk.
Now the REAL insider stuff...this info is a bit outdated I will admit, and I know AC is improving in this area but here goes...
At WS we did SOOOO many bag pulls, T-15 minutes prior to pushback we'd still be loading and the gate agent would come down with 10 bag numbers to pull. Some are easy, if you know 7 are late check you should find them quickly, some are connections which can be found quickly as well. But what happens is, they'd call us for those bag pulls, meanwhile they've called the pax 5 times, then the 6th time the guy shows up. But that's because the calls start WAY too early. WS is VERY cognizant of their OTP, not to say AC isn't but AC was always much less concerned about a couple minutes late, whereas WS would ask us to account for every minute of a 4 minute delay, down to "there was an aircraft taxiing behind us"...that's how ridiculous it got.
When I was at AC, in 3 months, I did 1 bag pull. AC would constantly send bags without the passenger, which is against policy and transport law. They'd risk the fine, not sure if they just didn't care, or they just thought no-shows with bags didn't happen that often but we almost never did bag pulls. As a standby, I was bumped off a flight, asked if I had a bag and what color tag it was, I told them it was yellow and she said "oh well if it's yellow they sent it, if it was white they'll hold it", it has to do with rev or non-rev I think, but in any case I travelled on a different flight than my bag, for no reason. I also know, AC has far more standbys and of course oversells which throws things off a bit.
We actually had fun after a while at WS though, because if we could pull the bag before the agent would cancel it, we'd send the bag to arrivals, often times only to be told 3 minutes later to cancel. We were testing ourselves but also doing it somewhat out of spite because the passengers were making our lives miserable by not being at the gate on time.
Unless you've done it, you have no idea how miserable it is to stack 120 bags in a 737-800, getting rained/snowed on, only to have to undo all that work pull one of the damn first bags loaded, ONLY to then be asked to reload the probably overweight bag because the jerk showed up with 5 minutes left after sitting at the bar the whole time.
I can also tell you this, just anecdotally, more WS passengers show up in pajamas than AC.
Also, WS has more overweight bags. I left before they started charging for bags, but I'd say average checked bags per person was over 1. Also as WS would often be friendly and "overlook" baggage fees, people would constantly have 60lbs baggage and not be paying despite the 50lbs limit. Personally I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they left a lot of money on the table. Even if the person just transfers 10lbs of weight into their underweight bag, as dumb as that feels/sounds at least it conditions them to know they shouldn't be over 50.
Sorry, I always get ranty when talking about WS. Didn't hate working under them at all, but like anything you really see the ins and outs when you're there.
AC follows the "doors closed at T-15" or at least they try to. I know I ran onto a plane one day as last call and door close was about to happen, then when I sat down realized I still had 10 minutes to pushback. WS doesn't really do this, they do in a way but they try to be really friendly about it.
WS will also let people check in, WITH bags, mere minutes before pushback. At YVR we constantly had people late check-in. Late is defined as anything less than 45 minutes prior of course. AC flat out will not let me check a bag when this happens (though I can usually get the GC to just do it, so I'm not sure why they are such sticklers), but WS takes it too far. We'd be 20 minutes to pushback and have 5-6 more bags being sent down. WS always says "the passengers have been advised their bags might not make it". Basically we found a few too often those bags would miss then WS would b**ch at us about why they didn't make it. So we kinda just told them eventually, you send them down at your own risk.
Now the REAL insider stuff...this info is a bit outdated I will admit, and I know AC is improving in this area but here goes...
At WS we did SOOOO many bag pulls, T-15 minutes prior to pushback we'd still be loading and the gate agent would come down with 10 bag numbers to pull. Some are easy, if you know 7 are late check you should find them quickly, some are connections which can be found quickly as well. But what happens is, they'd call us for those bag pulls, meanwhile they've called the pax 5 times, then the 6th time the guy shows up. But that's because the calls start WAY too early. WS is VERY cognizant of their OTP, not to say AC isn't but AC was always much less concerned about a couple minutes late, whereas WS would ask us to account for every minute of a 4 minute delay, down to "there was an aircraft taxiing behind us"...that's how ridiculous it got.
When I was at AC, in 3 months, I did 1 bag pull. AC would constantly send bags without the passenger, which is against policy and transport law. They'd risk the fine, not sure if they just didn't care, or they just thought no-shows with bags didn't happen that often but we almost never did bag pulls. As a standby, I was bumped off a flight, asked if I had a bag and what color tag it was, I told them it was yellow and she said "oh well if it's yellow they sent it, if it was white they'll hold it", it has to do with rev or non-rev I think, but in any case I travelled on a different flight than my bag, for no reason. I also know, AC has far more standbys and of course oversells which throws things off a bit.
We actually had fun after a while at WS though, because if we could pull the bag before the agent would cancel it, we'd send the bag to arrivals, often times only to be told 3 minutes later to cancel. We were testing ourselves but also doing it somewhat out of spite because the passengers were making our lives miserable by not being at the gate on time.
Unless you've done it, you have no idea how miserable it is to stack 120 bags in a 737-800, getting rained/snowed on, only to have to undo all that work pull one of the damn first bags loaded, ONLY to then be asked to reload the probably overweight bag because the jerk showed up with 5 minutes left after sitting at the bar the whole time.
I can also tell you this, just anecdotally, more WS passengers show up in pajamas than AC.
Also, WS has more overweight bags. I left before they started charging for bags, but I'd say average checked bags per person was over 1. Also as WS would often be friendly and "overlook" baggage fees, people would constantly have 60lbs baggage and not be paying despite the 50lbs limit. Personally I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they left a lot of money on the table. Even if the person just transfers 10lbs of weight into their underweight bag, as dumb as that feels/sounds at least it conditions them to know they shouldn't be over 50.
Sorry, I always get ranty when talking about WS. Didn't hate working under them at all, but like anything you really see the ins and outs when you're there.
drvannostren
Thanks for the details. Very interesting.
But this just made my day
Thanks for the details. Very interesting.
But this just made my day
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Originally Posted by drvannostren
I can also tell you this, just anecdotally, more WS passengers show up in pajamas than AC.
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No, You can phone in, book flight and pay later. I do this a few times every year.Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
Yes but you still have to pay...I realize it's refundable but your statement was that one doesn't have to buy a seat on AC...you still have to pay
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Wow, news to me!Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
No, You can phone in, book flight and pay later. I do this a few times every year.
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Is this because you are an elite tier citizen?Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
No, You can phone in, book flight and pay later. I do this a few times every year.
Because you see, me, as a third class cattle citizen, I don't get to do these things. Even the waiters ask me to pay my bill up front. What is a tab anyways?
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Because you see, me, as a third class cattle citizen, I don't get to do these things. Even the waiters ask me to pay my bill up front. What is a tab anyways?
Maybe have a bath and get a hair cut and the world will not make you per pay.Originally Posted by SparseFlyer
Is this because you are an elite tier citizen?Because you see, me, as a third class cattle citizen, I don't get to do these things. Even the waiters ask me to pay my bill up front. What is a tab anyways?
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I did it booking a trip to Europe that involved a segment on LX. But not by choice. They couldn't ticket it without giving LX a chance to say "no" or something, so they told me to call back after 48 or 72 hours to pay.Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
No, You can phone in, book flight and pay later. I do this a few times every year.
In the meantime, I had a booking reference and could pull it up online. It had a note about not being ticketed though.
And I don't think you can leave it unticketed indefinitely. I'm pretty sure they'd cancel your booking after a week if it hasn't been ticketed.
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In the meantime, I had a booking reference and could pull it up online. It had a note about not being ticketed though.
And I don't think you can leave it unticketed indefinitely. I'm pretty sure they'd cancel your booking after a week if it hasn't been ticketed.
I was talking about Dom flights.Originally Posted by canadiancow
I did it booking a trip to Europe that involved a segment on LX. But not by choice. They couldn't ticket it without giving LX a chance to say "no" or something, so they told me to call back after 48 or 72 hours to pay.In the meantime, I had a booking reference and could pull it up online. It had a note about not being ticketed though.
And I don't think you can leave it unticketed indefinitely. I'm pretty sure they'd cancel your booking after a week if it hasn't been ticketed.
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AC follows the "doors closed at T-15" or at least they try to. I know I ran onto a plane one day as last call and door close was about to happen, then when I sat down realized I still had 10 minutes to pushback. WS doesn't really do this, they do in a way but they try to be really friendly about it.
WS will also let people check in, WITH bags, mere minutes before pushback. At YVR we constantly had people late check-in. Late is defined as anything less than 45 minutes prior of course. AC flat out will not let me check a bag when this happens (though I can usually get the GC to just do it, so I'm not sure why they are such sticklers), but WS takes it too far. We'd be 20 minutes to pushback and have 5-6 more bags being sent down. WS always says "the passengers have been advised their bags might not make it". Basically we found a few too often those bags would miss then WS would b**ch at us about why they didn't make it. So we kinda just told them eventually, you send them down at your own risk.
Now the REAL insider stuff...this info is a bit outdated I will admit, and I know AC is improving in this area but here goes...
At WS we did SOOOO many bag pulls, T-15 minutes prior to pushback we'd still be loading and the gate agent would come down with 10 bag numbers to pull. Some are easy, if you know 7 are late check you should find them quickly, some are connections which can be found quickly as well. But what happens is, they'd call us for those bag pulls, meanwhile they've called the pax 5 times, then the 6th time the guy shows up. But that's because the calls start WAY too early. WS is VERY cognizant of their OTP, not to say AC isn't but AC was always much less concerned about a couple minutes late, whereas WS would ask us to account for every minute of a 4 minute delay, down to "there was an aircraft taxiing behind us"...that's how ridiculous it got.
When I was at AC, in 3 months, I did 1 bag pull. AC would constantly send bags without the passenger, which is against policy and transport law. They'd risk the fine, not sure if they just didn't care, or they just thought no-shows with bags didn't happen that often but we almost never did bag pulls. As a standby, I was bumped off a flight, asked if I had a bag and what color tag it was, I told them it was yellow and she said "oh well if it's yellow they sent it, if it was white they'll hold it", it has to do with rev or non-rev I think, but in any case I travelled on a different flight than my bag, for no reason. I also know, AC has far more standbys and of course oversells which throws things off a bit.
We actually had fun after a while at WS though, because if we could pull the bag before the agent would cancel it, we'd send the bag to arrivals, often times only to be told 3 minutes later to cancel. We were testing ourselves but also doing it somewhat out of spite because the passengers were making our lives miserable by not being at the gate on time.
Unless you've done it, you have no idea how miserable it is to stack 120 bags in a 737-800, getting rained/snowed on, only to have to undo all that work pull one of the damn first bags loaded, ONLY to then be asked to reload the probably overweight bag because the jerk showed up with 5 minutes left after sitting at the bar the whole time.
I can also tell you this, just anecdotally, more WS passengers show up in pajamas than AC.
Also, WS has more overweight bags. I left before they started charging for bags, but I'd say average checked bags per person was over 1. Also as WS would often be friendly and "overlook" baggage fees, people would constantly have 60lbs baggage and not be paying despite the 50lbs limit. Personally I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they left a lot of money on the table. Even if the person just transfers 10lbs of weight into their underweight bag, as dumb as that feels/sounds at least it conditions them to know they shouldn't be over 50.
Sorry, I always get ranty when talking about WS. Didn't hate working under them at all, but like anything you really see the ins and outs when you're there.
Originally Posted by drvannostren
I might be able to shed a little bit of light on this, as someone who worked under WS/AC and is now an AC FF.AC follows the "doors closed at T-15" or at least they try to. I know I ran onto a plane one day as last call and door close was about to happen, then when I sat down realized I still had 10 minutes to pushback. WS doesn't really do this, they do in a way but they try to be really friendly about it.
WS will also let people check in, WITH bags, mere minutes before pushback. At YVR we constantly had people late check-in. Late is defined as anything less than 45 minutes prior of course. AC flat out will not let me check a bag when this happens (though I can usually get the GC to just do it, so I'm not sure why they are such sticklers), but WS takes it too far. We'd be 20 minutes to pushback and have 5-6 more bags being sent down. WS always says "the passengers have been advised their bags might not make it". Basically we found a few too often those bags would miss then WS would b**ch at us about why they didn't make it. So we kinda just told them eventually, you send them down at your own risk.
Now the REAL insider stuff...this info is a bit outdated I will admit, and I know AC is improving in this area but here goes...
At WS we did SOOOO many bag pulls, T-15 minutes prior to pushback we'd still be loading and the gate agent would come down with 10 bag numbers to pull. Some are easy, if you know 7 are late check you should find them quickly, some are connections which can be found quickly as well. But what happens is, they'd call us for those bag pulls, meanwhile they've called the pax 5 times, then the 6th time the guy shows up. But that's because the calls start WAY too early. WS is VERY cognizant of their OTP, not to say AC isn't but AC was always much less concerned about a couple minutes late, whereas WS would ask us to account for every minute of a 4 minute delay, down to "there was an aircraft taxiing behind us"...that's how ridiculous it got.
When I was at AC, in 3 months, I did 1 bag pull. AC would constantly send bags without the passenger, which is against policy and transport law. They'd risk the fine, not sure if they just didn't care, or they just thought no-shows with bags didn't happen that often but we almost never did bag pulls. As a standby, I was bumped off a flight, asked if I had a bag and what color tag it was, I told them it was yellow and she said "oh well if it's yellow they sent it, if it was white they'll hold it", it has to do with rev or non-rev I think, but in any case I travelled on a different flight than my bag, for no reason. I also know, AC has far more standbys and of course oversells which throws things off a bit.
We actually had fun after a while at WS though, because if we could pull the bag before the agent would cancel it, we'd send the bag to arrivals, often times only to be told 3 minutes later to cancel. We were testing ourselves but also doing it somewhat out of spite because the passengers were making our lives miserable by not being at the gate on time.
Unless you've done it, you have no idea how miserable it is to stack 120 bags in a 737-800, getting rained/snowed on, only to have to undo all that work pull one of the damn first bags loaded, ONLY to then be asked to reload the probably overweight bag because the jerk showed up with 5 minutes left after sitting at the bar the whole time.
I can also tell you this, just anecdotally, more WS passengers show up in pajamas than AC.
Also, WS has more overweight bags. I left before they started charging for bags, but I'd say average checked bags per person was over 1. Also as WS would often be friendly and "overlook" baggage fees, people would constantly have 60lbs baggage and not be paying despite the 50lbs limit. Personally I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they left a lot of money on the table. Even if the person just transfers 10lbs of weight into their underweight bag, as dumb as that feels/sounds at least it conditions them to know they shouldn't be over 50.
Sorry, I always get ranty when talking about WS. Didn't hate working under them at all, but like anything you really see the ins and outs when you're there.
All part of the Westjet model of being client friendly. It is cost effective to overlook a kilo. Once the delays, manpower cost etc are added in, charging for a small overweight isn't worth it.
WS pax tend to be less stuck up and a lot more civil than the pax I have experienced on AC. Maybe its the demographics. Just my opinion.
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Or is this WS being proactive with OTP?
I recently heard calls for a WS flight starting 25 minutes prior to scheduled departure. When was the last time AC even started pre-board at that time?Originally Posted by tracon
7 calls for the same flight or different flights?Or is this WS being proactive with OTP?
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Me and the cow got burned getting to the Yvr Do. It was EARLY, as in before the time listed on the BP!! We both...were surprised.Originally Posted by I'llMissCP
I recently heard calls for a WS flight starting 25 minutes prior to scheduled departure. When was the last time AC even started pre-board at that time?
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I somehow missed this story here on FT. Is it in that DO's thread?Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
Me and the cow got burned getting to the Yvr Do. It was EARLY, as in before the time listed on the BP!! We both...were surprised.
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Yes, it should be. It was a really weird day. The cow and I show up about 5 minutes early for preboarding. They were boarding zone 5? at the time.Originally Posted by yyznomad
I somehow missed this story here on FT. Is it in that DO's thread?
Once we got on the aircraft, the captain shows up 10 minutes or so prior to pushback. Yes, read that again - pushback! It was a weird day for sure.