The 3rd Millenium's first MHD
 

Greetings from the Mexicana lounge Guadalajara, Mexico.

As usual, I continue to be impressed with Mexicana. There've been a few hiccups, like today's meals (a touch bland, melted and re-frozen ice cream,) and some of their equipment and lounges look a bit tired. But staff is still amazingly friendly and helpful, and every MX flight I've taken has departed essentially on time, and more importantly, arrived early.

When I inquired at check-in at ORD about carrying on my 22", lap-top, and satchel, I was happily given 3 "Distinguished Passenger" tags to eliminate any problems at security or the plane. Another impressive area is what can only be described as "swarms" of agents, crusing the terminal looking for people with that "now what?" look on their face. Several approached me at the same time, and directed me to the regular check-in line. When I asked for business class, one agent escorted me to the counter.

The lounge in GDL is small, tiny even, reminiscent of the Empress lounge in BKK, in years gone by. But for you beverage connoisseurs (or winos, as the case may be) there is a HUGE selection of hard liquor, beer, and wine, not to mention juices, pop, bottled water, and so on. There's also a good selection of snacks, including Empress Hotel high tea type sandwiches, great cookies (of which I'll most likely consume the lot of), nuts, chips, and all the usual stuff. And when I entered, the agent asked me if the Air Conditioning was OK, and switched the satellite TV to English stations. And you've probably noticed that I have Internet access, using my laptop.

Bypassing customs and/or immigration is a no go however. All international arrivals park on the tarmac and use a mobile lounge to get passengers to the terminal. You are then herded into a large closet that passes for a customs hall. Eventually, the pressure of the crowd will push you towards an immigration agent, much like the way water always flows out the bathtub drain.

The formalities, or lack thereof, took 5 seconds tops. He pulled the immigration card from my passport, without looking at the passport, stamped it twice, wrote in 30 (days) and sent me on my way. Likewise, customs pulled me out of the X-ray line, had me push the button, and I was done. Next time I might try the 50 minute connection at 1am, but it'll probably be close. There's a hotel right at the terminal if I miss my connection, so worst case, I'll grab a room.

Next stop, SFO.

Great to hear that things are going OK. I tried to do the YYZ-ORD-GDL two-step (and then back to ORD-YYC (instead of PVR) but they are not offering the 8PM flight out of ORD next week on Friday so I will do my regular YYZ-ORD-MEX-PVR-MEX-LAX-YYC. It's too bad since it would have shaved about 12 hours off my travel time!

I must ask ... as a neophyte to this website but a frequent flier nonetheless(AC SE) ... what the heck is a MHD? Also, what is the ... YYZ-ORD-GDL two-step?

Welcome to the board Vasbyte! A MHD is a Mexican Hat Dance, a fun and profitable way to stick it to the airlines, in the words of one its inventors, Ken hAAmer above.

If you search this forum using MHD you will find a number of threads that outline in detail what it is. However, it is basically a way to get cheaper flights across Canada by travelling via Mexican locations.

The most avid MHDers seem to be Ken, Blondebomber, and MapleLeaf, who was written up in the Globe a couple of weeks ago. My apologies if I forgot anyone.

Vasbyte: I would suggest you use the search function and search for either MHD or Mexcian Hat Dance, you'll be amazed to learn about it after you finish reading all those posts!

To start see:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum5/HTML/001033.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum5/HTML/001267.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum5/HTML/001362.html

HAVE FUN!

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 01-12-2001).]

My education continues ... Thanks!

I don't think that I can resist the temptation any longer. I've decided to try for a MHD in April, mainly as a mileage run. I have a weekend (Fri-Mon) and my plan is YXU-CUN in J, which currently lists at ~$1400. It looks as if the regular routing would be YXU-YYZ-YVR-LAX-MEX-CUN and back the same way. However, I noticed on ITN that I can do YVR-MEX via ORD, which gives an extra 1000 miles and gets into MEX about 30 min before the LAX flight. Would such a flight be a legal routing on this trip, and does anyone have any other suggestions for upping the mileage? I'll do an O/N in MEX before going to CUN, but I think I'd rather fly than lie around on the beach.

I was just checking out some routes on ITN. I don't know if it would be legal routing (or feasible), but I can get almost 17K miles by going YXU-YOW-YVR-ORD-LAX-MEX-CUN and back the same way. Any thoughts?

Only that you can come back the same way (ORD-YVR) if the schedule works (might be too long a trip though).

You will have to get a travel agent to do more than an 8 segment booking.

I just wanted to check something in my planning for a mhd. I'm not absolutely sure I understand the routing codes given in Expedia. Is it the case that where it says From-To, then any or all of the airports listed are legitimate connections? If that is the case, then is it possible to cascade routings? So, if one can go YVR-LAX via ORD, then is it possible to go ORD-LAX via DFW or OMA or whatever. Eventually you run out of time, obviously, but I'd like to know the options.

Whats the highest numbers of miles anyone has received in one MHD? What would that routing be?

If route cascading is allowed (and I plan to check with my travel agent shortly), it should be possible to rack up huge mileages if you have the time.

What is route cascading??

back seat: Suppose that you're doing a regular mhd from YXU-YVR via MEX, the normal route would be YXU-YVR-LAX-MEX. However, if you look at UA YVR-MEX they allow for YVR-ORD-MEX. and if you look at ORD-MEX, then you can go via LAX. So, if the airlines allow you to do this, your mhd could be, for example, YXU-YOW-YVR-ORD-LAX-MEX and back. That one is just doable in a (long)day. In principle, you could just criss-cross the country for as long as you have time. I'm going to check with my travel agent to see if this is permitted and I'll post the answer.

Academic: I would be very interested in your findings. I am considering a MHD from YWG to maximize miles. I have a few days to burn.

The current Mexicana seat sale fares appear to allow unlimited stopovers but do require a minimum stay and are likely not upgradable on AC portions but may be useful for someone who wants to go to a bunch of places and pick up some miles!!

There are always cheap Mexicana fares that are always upgradeable (3 day minimum, no Saturday night stay required). The seat sale fares are not worth it in my opinion. Also remember that a lot of those cheapest fares do not allow stopovers in Canada (if that is a consideration).

Cascading. If I understand correctly, the answer is no. You have to pay attention to the specific fare routing rule, not combining two or more. You can always test this out (the ONLY REAL WAY TO CHECK) by doing a simple routing (so you don't go over your 8 segment limit) and adding the questionable routing. If your fare climbs massively, you know you likely can't do it (although sometimes experienced travel agents can be of help).

Unfortunately (for a mileage run) you seem to be right, Bb. I've tried a couple of routings and they start breaking up the fare when other routes are used.

An update on the rest of my MHD.

Seems I spoke to soon in the original post about on time performance. The incoming flight for my GDL-SFO segment was delayed out of ORD, then out of MEX, finally arriving and departing late at GDL. The gate agents were very clever however, and before the plane arrived, lined everyone up in order of aisle. This was not just your average boarding sections, 10 rows at a time. They checked everyones boarding pass, and like a pack of sheepdogs, put everyone in order of row, starting at the back. (Me? I was in J class, so I was pre-boarded. Kinda lonely being the only one there.) Boarding of the Y cabin was remarkably quick and efficient. While the plane arrive about 45 minutes late, it departed only about 20 minutes late. We picked up only about 5 minutes en route, so we arrived at SFO about 15 minutes late.

Food was a different story as well. I had the same superb steak that BlondeBomber had on his last trip. Everything from salad to desert was fresh and delicious, and service was up to its usual standards. I'd dare say that it was as good a meal as I've ever had in J class.

Arrived in SFO to a huge but empty customs hall. Formalities for me were much quicker that the bulk of the passengers, who I presume were Mexican citizens. I did finally get a weird look for a customs official about my apparent GDL origin. When he asked what I was doing in GDL, I explained that I was connecting from a flight from ORD earlier that afternoon. He was completely satisfied with my explanation that it took several thousand dollars off the airfare coming back via Mexico. (He was also mildly amused by it all, as well.)

Spent a pleasant weekend in SFO. Sunday night I headed back to Vancouver on a unexceptional and uneventful flight. In SFO, I was again sent to the CO President's Club lounge. A grubby little place, complete with gum stuck to the seat cushions, and a complete lack of service. Leaned over the counter to self-serve myself from the soda dispenser, and loaded up on cheeze and pretzels. Better than the waiting area, I suppose.

And finally, partner mileage posting. I flew one 1 flight on UA Friday morning, and 2 on MX Friday afternoon and evening. My final segment to YVR was Sunday evening. All of the segments (including MX) have posted sometime Tuesday. Very quick. But I wish the flight details were available on-line.

Glad that your miles post so quickly. What's your secret?

UA is often the worst offender for me. I actually got MX credits immediately when UA issued all the boarding passes for UA and MX flights ORD-MEX-PVR-MEX but not the UA ones. I think I finally had to phone on one occasion and on the other it took a couple of weeks. When AC issued the boarding passes, the MX flights never showed up until I faxed them the info. Even the MX issued boarding passes did not post. I'm confused.

Oh well. That's life for a frequent traveller. Spend a few minutes a month cleaning up the gorey details.

Glad that the food improved. I am generally very impressed with MX's efficiency and friendliness. Blows every stereotype that you've heard about Latin American operations out the window! If only the US based airlines (and I know some will say the Canadian one too) were as good.

Everyone will think I'm joking, of course, but it appears to be my CP Executive Platinum card. It seems to strike both fear and awe into the hearts of Star Alliance personnel everywhere.

Lest you think I'm kidding...

My flight from BWI to ORD on Friday morning was originally scheduled to be a DC-10, but the equipment was changed to 737-200! Furthermore, the earlier 6am flight on a 757 was cancelled. When I checked in, I was given a centre (Ughh!) seat. I asked for an aisle, but only centre seats were available. I considered pushing my alleged *Gold status, but the agent was particularly miserable. I decided to try the lounge.

Upon entering the lounge, without my AC SE card, I yet again explained the deal about being an *Gold, even though I had no proof. I got the usual "Hmmmm.... welllllll.... OK." While fumbling around trying to dig out both my AC basic card and my CP E/P card, I asked about a better seat. The agent again remarked that the flight was heavily oversold, so I'd probably have to make do with the centre seat. At almost the same instant I inadvertantly flipped my CP card on to her desk. I immediately apologized, and reached over to pick it up, but she beat me to it.

She looked at it, let out another "hmmmm," and promptly changed demeanor completely. There was nothing wrong with her original demeanor, it's just that she instantly became super nice. A few seconds later she said (paraphrasing) "Oh! Actually, I've got the perfect seat for you." It was 8B, which sounds like a center seat, but is really an aisle row, with only 2 seats. It was also in the United Plus section, so I got the 37" seat pitch. And, there was no one else booked in the adjacent seat, although we both expected that would change by the time we boarded.

However, no such person materialized. The flight was so grossly oversold they were offering big dollars vouchers, a paid taxi or limo to IAD and guaranteed seat on the next IAD-ORD (or in some cases, IAD-SEA) flight. Any and all were welcome to volunteer, even if ORD was not the final destination. If you were prepared to change your travel plans, they wanted to hear from you.

Notwithstanding this huge excess of passengers, when the main cabin closed there was still no one in the seat next to me. I presumed that maybe an FA would sit there, but I had the aisle to myself the entire trip. I can't prove it, but until the agent saw my CP card, I seemed destined to spend the flight in a dreaded middle seat. But once the lounge agent had a look at my CP card, I was "upgraded" to a "psuedo-first class" seat.

I'm starting to feel like a Jedi Warrior. Next trip, I'm going to start waving my arm and card like that guy in the last Star Wars pre-quel. I imagine it like will go something like:

Agent: I'm sorry, I can't upgrade you.

Me: [wave hand & card]He can't sit in coach.

Agent: You can't sit in coach.

Me: [wave again]He should be in first class.

Agent: You should be in first class. Here's your new boarding pass.

Me: [put light sabre back in holster, and strut into FC]

Agent: Uh, sir, you'll have to check your light sabre. They're not permitted as carry-on items.

Ken: Oh! right!


FewMiles..

Actually, the transaction would be:

Gate agent: Uh, sir, you'll have to check your light sabre. They're not permitted as carry-on items.

Me: [wave hand and CP E/P card]He can take his light sabre on.

Agent: You can take your light sabre on.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif--

CP Basic won't work for me I guess--thought they might be entranced by the blue color.

Hi, I want to try a MHD in the coming months out of yyz. Have been reading about most of Blonde Bombers, and Ken's experiences. You guys are great. I have found a J fare from yyz to mex of $1398,I believe it has unlimited stopovers so would like to do
YYZ-YYC
YYC-YVR
YVR-LAX
LAX-MEX
MEX-ORD
ORD-YYZ

But when I try and use travelocity it only seems to allow 4 legs and quotes a price of $3,555 US dollars. What am I doing wrong? I do most of my flying in a light aircraft on business in Southern Ontario but have a lot of air miles and would like to become elite again.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Skyhawk: A couple of questions:

1. Where are you trying to get to?

2. What is the purpose of the MHD -- aquire elite status only, or also to save money, accumulate points, multiple stops, standard mileage run, J comfort, combination, etc?

3. When are you planning to travel?

4. Where did you find this "J fare from yyz to mex of $1398?"

Purpose

1) See business associate in YYC
2)flying vacation
3) earn elite status- I have a lot of miles in aeroplan and it would help in booking for my family.
4)J comfort

The fare came from Air Canada's web site YYZ-Mex J return. No specific dates yet.

You have to read the detailed fare rules out of YYZ (best seen on Expedia's site).

I doubt you can get a cheap fare from YYZ via YYC and YVR. The routing rules for your fare are (on AC ticket):

FROM-TO YTO-AC-MEX*
FROM YTO-AC/CP-
TO MEX*
OR TO CHI-AC-MEX*
OR TO NYC-AC-MEX*

or on MX ticket:

FROM-TO YTO-AC-CHI-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-UA-CHI-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AA-MIA-MX-CUN-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AA-NYC-MX-CUN-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-CP-NYC-MX-CUN-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-UA-DEN-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AA-MIA-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AA-MIA-MX-MID-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AA-NYC-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-CP-NYC-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-AC-YMQ-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-UA-CHI-MX-ZCL-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-MX/AC-CHI-MX-MEX*
FROM YTO-MX/AC-
TO YMQ/EWR/DEN-MX-MEX*
OR TO MIA-MX-MEX*
OR TO MIA-MX-CUN/MID-MX-MEX*
FROM YTO-MX/AC-
TO CHI/EWR-MX/AC-YMQ-MX-MEX*
OR TO YMQ-MX/AC-CHI/EWR-MX-MEX*
FROM-TO YTO-MX/AC-DEN-MX-MZT/PVR/SJD/
ZCL-MX-MEX*
FROM YTO-MX/AC-

However, you can get "cheap fares" on Mexicana (using AC and MX flights of course) from YXU or YOW (for about $1800 and $1600 in J respectively) which can be flown via YYC. If you also want to add YVR it will cost you more (exceeds MPM I believe). Better to go YYC-LAX direct.

Yes your 1398 fare has unlimited stopovers but they would have to be DEN, NYC, MIA, CUN depending whether you were ticketing via MX, AC or UA (see above). Other cities are not on the permitted routing. Montreal is but that would make for a rather expensive YYZ-YUL trip.

The rules are not that complicated but you have to fool around with them. I would recommend using a more powerful booking engine like ITN (allows up to 8 segments) to do your testing of fares and routing and then either purchase on ITN or go to a travel agent.

I will not/cannot book them easily using Expedia, Travelocity or Air Canada.

I would also recommend going over all those past threads and high-grading out the most relevant info about where to find fare rules, what the different itineraries are, why some cities are not doable (like YYZ--you have to go to YXU or YOW to start your trip) etc.

This is where Personal Ticket Office really shines. When you don't care about fare class (ie booking in business), you can just keep plugging in up to 8 segments and get really fast fare comparisons of different routings and sensitivities of adding or deleting various destinations or connections.

Thankfo the help. Will check the rules with
expedia. Is the other engine ITN.com?

Yes it is www.itn.com

Is V class upgradeable to Mexico?

That's a trick question Academic. For Super Elites it doesn't matter (when flying on AC metal -- MX doesn't count) since SE systemwides are good anywhere AC planes fly for V class and higher.

For Elites, I suspect not but I am not sure. Mexico is not shown on the table on the North American certificate (but it could be "other N. American" locations). Hawaii is specifically excluded. I guess you would have to check with AC unless someone has direct experience.

Since the YYZ-MEX flight is operating out of Terminal 1 at YYZ, I assume it's considered as international flight by AC?

Upgrading really isn't an issue since the flights on a MHD directly into/out of MEX won't be on AC anyways, so can't be upgraded with certificates or stickers. The AC sectors will all be domestic and/or transborder, so a V fare will work. It is only the non-stop YYZ-MEX service where your question comes into play.

According to the rules on the Cdn+ sticker folder, Mexico is considered as NAmerica for purposes of upgrading on those fares: but beware of the V-class problem as I have posted it elsewhere. As to AC certificates, that is an interesting question based on BB's response. You could always argue that the NAmerican Free Trade Agreement includes Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, so it would be hard for AC to reject upgrarding with NAmerican certificates.

I realised after I posted that I'd been a little too cryptic. I had been thinking from the POV of Elite. I was surprised to realise, though,that it was a more complicated question than I had thought. It's scarcely surprising that we get different answers from desk agents if we make standby requests. That thought should keep me humble and polite.

Well, I am preparing to join the MHD club. Just amazed a travel agent this afternoon by having him book a 10-segment itinerary for my trip to YYC next week, and issue the ticket.

YOW-YYZ AC
YYZ-YYC AC
overnight/meetings
YYC-LAX AC
LAX-MEX MX
MEX-CUN MX
2 nights
CUN-MEX MX
MEX-LAX MX
LAX-YVR AC
YVR-YYZ AC
s/over
YYZ-YOW for a later business trip

About 14K qualifying miles (I'll hit Elite renewal by the end of March now) and 10K in AC double bonus miles.

The travel agent just could not believe the fare [$1460 with taxes and airport fees, etc.] in J-class all the way, no restrictions and fully refundable! The best YYZ-YYC-YYZ AC fare outside the 14-day advance purchase window for the dates I have to travel ia $1780 in Y going and H class returning.

So instead of overnighting in YYC waiting for Saturday to come and go, I shall be on the beach at Cancun...

Thanks Ken and Cliff.

Incredible!!

Two days ago I paid more than that for a Y class YYZ-MIA-YYZ trip. And all I get is a measly 3000 q miles.

I don't suppose there's some way of working MIA into that routing.

[This message has been edited by After Burner (edited 02-27-2001).]

After Burner, do you suppose there is a similar fare phenomenon for AA flights? YYZ, MIA, and MEX are all served by that airline and that might be a possibility for you. If memory serves me right, one of the experts said that the MHD is not an Air Canada phenomenon but is due to some quirky tariff.

FewMiles..