Aegean’s non refund policy for COVID cancelled flights illegal
 

The European commission has this to say:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/inf_20_1212


2 July 2020
“Commission opens infringement proceedings against GREECE and ITALY for failure to comply with EU rules protecting rights of passengers

Today the European Commission launched infringement proceedings by sending letters of formal notice to Greece and Italy for being in violation of EU rules protecting rights of passengers. Both Greece and Italy have taken measures that do not comply with EU rules on air passenger rights (Regulation (EC) No 261/2004) and on waterborne travel (Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010). Furthermore, Italy has taken measures that do not comply with EU rules on bus and coach travel (Regulation (EU) No 181/2011) and rail passenger rights (Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007). Due to the coronavirus pandemic, many companies in the transport sector have been faced with unsustainable cash flows and revenue situations. Throughout this crisis, the Commission has consistently made clear that passenger rights remain valid in the current unprecedented context and national measures to support the industry must not lower them. While the European Commission is also assessing the situation in other Member States by requesting further information on the application of the rules, Greece and Italy have adopted legislation allowing carriers to offer vouchers as the only form of reimbursement. Under the EU passenger rights Regulations, however, passengers have the right to choose between reimbursement in money and other forms of refund, such as a voucher. If they are offered vouchers, the passengers have to agree to this solution. Greece and Italy now have two months to reply to the arguments raised by the Commission, otherwise the Commission may decide to send a reasoned opinion.”

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/inf_20_1212

Considering it looked at one time like there was no option other than accepting a voucher, most people probably have those now. Especially as there was a time limit on when you could apply (I think is was 2 months after the scheduled flight).

The problem is, how do you get refunds for bookings that you have received vouchers for? Pretty impossible I'd say.

One would hope that Aegean in light of any potential fines may proactively or passively accept to cancel vouchers and issue refunds. Otherwise it will be an 18 month wait to get our money back. In any case this exposes the disgusting behaviour by Aegean and the Greek government.

I believe that Aegean reduced the time to 12 months to cash in the vouchers. Still not acceptable though!

Aegean can't get fined, because they have to respect the law and they can't be punished for respecting it. Their country voted on a new law - it's not something Aegean can affect; their only option is to adhere to it. So the only side that can be "fined" is the government itself. It's a funny thing - they advised the government that they needed this law, but they are basically covered ha. Of course, nothing will happen out of this and I'm sure they'll start issuing refunds sooner than planned either way.

Aegean have to respect all laws they operate under including EU law that is above Greek law. The Greek law in any case does not force them to offer vouchers, it simply allowed it in breach of EU regulations. Aegean as a responsible business should understand law supremacy in the EU and elected to still offer refunds.

The Greek law did not prohibit the payment of refunds, it simply suspended the duty to pay them. EC 261/2004, under which A3 operates requires the payment of refunds and thus anyone who is due a refund can get one.

I would advise initiating a chargeback with one's credit card issuer (bank), doing it in writing, and if one was issued a voucher, advising that one was denied a refund and that A3 is free to revoke the voucher if it wishes. Be certain to supply a copy of EC 261/2004 Section 8 (not the whole Regulation), the EC determination, a copy of your e-ticket receipt, notice of cancellation, and request for cancellation.

I know I will sound like I am an employee of Aegean who is defending them/us left and right no matter what, but I want to give you a perspective of someone working in eCommerce where chargebacks/disputes/claims are plentiful.

Chargebacks are considered to be the outcome of a complete breakdown in communication and usually the last step taken before the relationship is ended for good.

Now, reading through posts here I saw a lot of posters bragging how they're for example using lounge access benefits in a way that is hurting Aegean financially and that your affiliation with M&B is there only for your gain (a lot of you do not live in Greece/Cyprus and/or do not visit regularly apart from milage runs or do not fly with them at all). So let's say Aegean's losses are bigger-than-expected this year and hence each and every department has to cut costs. FFP dept goes ahead and reviews who is actually causing them to lose money (FFPs are supposed to earn money for the carrier, even though they are marketed as a benefit to flyers). They encounter your FFP activity coupled with the fees they had to pay for your chargebacks (usually EUR 15-30 per chargeback on top of the chargebacked amount) and decide cancelling your membership in the program is the way to go. What would happen with the award is something that you should take into account (I guess status miles can be reassigned if you have all the details of your previous flights). They would not be vindictive in doing this, they would simply be saving money as you are aware you are a money burner for them with an added risk of pulling the chargeback trigger.

If you want your money because you will not fly Aegean again, of course you should go ahead and claim it. Personally, I'm not submitting chargebacks even though Aegean cancelled all July and August flights from my home airport. I'm not even convinced I'll be able to visit Greece this summer at all (we have been "re-banned" and by the looks of it I highly doubt we'll be allowed in). So Aegean has my money and it's very likely I won't be able to use the vouchers for the foreseeable future.

But considering a lot of FFs really care about their miles and program affiliations, I would not be so easy on the trigger. I worked at multiple eCom businesses (some of them huge) and they had a wide range of ways dealing with customers who submitted chargebacks. Some of those ways can affect customers even outside the company/platform in question. Don't think I'm wishing something bad to happen to your FF account/Star Alliance reputation, but you should definitely do a risk assessment before hitting Aegean with chargebacks. Again, I'm all up for you getting your money, but the age old question of who is right aside - just make sure you are prepared to jeopardize your relationship with them, possibly permanently.

I am sure that I am not the only one not wanting to fly with Aegean ever again. I hold no FF with any Star Alliance airline and I judge Aegean against it’s competitors. They have elected to be robbers in a time of crisis withholding the money of thousands of travellers and no the must pay the price. Their reputation is damaged forever.

Sorry to be blunt here.

EU law has, since 2005, required that in the case where a Member State carrier cancels a flight, the passenger may have a full refund upon request and that the refund must be processed within 7 days of the request. This is binary and easy to understand. If A3 fails to honor a clearcut legal obligation, any smart consumer will immediately initiate a chargeback on the 8th day if the refund is not in process.

If you have one shred of evidence that A3 retaliates against customers who exercise their legal rights under EU law, please post it. Otherwise, this is fear-mongering.

Yes, a3 has to provide refunds in case of cancellations as per eu law.

but let's not forget this is a complete meltdown of the airline system that has never happens before. Ever single airline in the eu has done what Aegean has done. Paying out 3 months of revenue with 0 income would have bankrupted every single one of them.

in the grand scheme of things, your ticket doensnt matter. Sure, if you would go for it now, and sued, you'd win. But it would not come to that. They would stall you so long to the point they are sure you would go through would it and then pay up.

across the board people are waiting for refunds from all airlines. What are you gonna do never fly again? Just save yourself the hassle and the work, sit back, and use your voucher to go to Greece like you would it in the first place.

and I don't work for a3.

This is very true! I used to work as Head of Antifraud for many years in ECom and there is no sympathy for a client who does chargebacks. However, having read the terms and conditions there is nothing in the M+B terms allowing them to cancel the membership due to a "legal" chargeback such as "credit not processed" or "service not provided"

I am sorry but this is inaccurate. I had refunds from Lufthansa, BA and easyJet. Aegean seem to be on a league of their own.

I had A3 M+B award travel booked on SQ in May. The flight was rescheduled twice before being cancelled by the carrier. Aegean refunded my miles within 7 days of the cancellation and told me the fees and taxes would be refunded in due course. It wasn’t a huge amount, so I waited. The funds were credited to me last week, about 10 weeks after the cancellation.

Compared to some other airlines this is great. I have just served legal papers on LH Group for an outstanding Swiss refund. Perhaps the EU should start action against Germany. No, thought not.

All very well for most of us who read this forum, we obviously fly Aegean often so getting vouchers is not the worst thing that can happen.

But what about those (and I'm sure there are thousands) who booked flights for specific work, meetings, weddings, celebrations, or endless other reasons, that do not plan on going to Greece in the foreseeable future?

If Aegean wanted to keep hold of people's money, it should have made the voucher option more attractive, i.e. offering a percentage bonus. Unilaterally deciding to keep the money in their bank account is not an acceptable business practice, and does nothing to endear the airline to passengers.

No point in pleasing people that are never coming to Greece again. They have bigger fish to fry.

like I said before, it's not legal. But there's not that much you can do about it. If you sue, you win. But verry few people are gonna bother. It's a lot easier to just take a trip to Greece. If you went for a specific purpose, then just plan a holiday.

People that sue are a small minority. It's a risk/reward assessment from Aegean, nothing more nothing less. As soon as someone goes through, give them their refund. It's not pretty, but it's the way it is. Not like fr, w6 or vy are paying out...

I have to deal with people that are threatening to apeal my judgments in court all day. They rarely go through. And win maybee once a year.

Nothing is impossible.

They can go through their list of vouchers, and for those vouchers issued for a booking where they were responsible for cancelling a flight, and which are still unused, either:
a) immediately issue a full refund to the original form of payment (and void the voucher); or
b) change the voucher (or reissue a new voucher) such that it is refundable, in a process to be initiated online by the voucher holder
c) contact each such voucher holder, asking them to choose between the refund (whether stream a) or b)) or holding on to the voucher that they already have.

Why did you think not?

The Commission had 47 infringement cases open against Germany as of December 2019, the 3rd-highest total of any member state (Italy had 49 and Spain had 57); transport was indicated as a "problem sector".

Germany has consistently had well above the average number of open infringement cases.

Just for the record, in less than a week I received vouchers for all my Aegean canceled flights.
It has been a month sinceIsince canceled 2 flights with SAS and didnt receive anything from them.

Just for the record out of the 6 Tickets I had in early April (3x LATAM, 2x Lufthansa and 1x Air Europa) I have only received ONE (1, UNO) refund for one of the LATAM tickets (fun fact, I actually got more money back for that ticket than what I had spent, due to currency conversion rates). The rest has sent me a few emails stating that "it's an ongoing process") and lately I even got one saying that the refund claim couldn't be processed because of missing information (nothing was missing of course, they just stalled the process and made me start over again).
These are the only tickets I had that got canceled.
There are indeed a (very) few airlines that were "good" from the beginning of the pandemic and then most of them stalled and delayed (many are still delaying) refunds for as long as possible (if airline A takes an average in the pandemic of 5 months to refund and airline B 6 months, when both should have refunded within 7 days, in my eyes both are equally "bad", that goes to those who "proudly" refer to LH as one who issues refunds, when we all know what went down...).

They do offer 10% extra if the flight has been cancelled - I have two vouchers with 10% extra.

And I fully agree that FFs are the ones who got the better side of this - after all, they fly frequently and are most likely to book new flights as soon as they can. And on top of that they really want a good relationship with Aegean so they can continue to reap the benefits.

It does get much worse for non-FFs who just wanted a nice holiday.

I have friends who booked their summer holiday flights with JU. When Serbian passport holders got re-banned, Aegean cancelled the flights, but Air Serbia continued operating them, both to ATH and to SKG. A sizable number of people here have Hungarian/Croatian passports along with their Serbian ones, so I guess those people coupled with some transfers are enough to sustain flights with an ATR.

Since the flights had not been not cancelled JU said no voucher could be issued and offered my friends an option of being rebooked on another flight with the last possible flight date being Dec 31. The call center reps were even rude and said that they should be lucky they were being offered anything as it was their fault they didn't meet the entry requirements. This coming from a government-owned national airline - blaming its own citizens.

My friends got their holiday leaves approved by their companies and they cannot travel whenever they want to, plus they wanna swim, not go for NYE to Athens. They gave up on fighting and booked a package holiday to Turkey - the charter fight is of course being operated by Air Serbia lol.

Everything taken into account, this info from Aegean seems very customer-oriented.

None of this matters. The law affords the passenger the choice. If the consumer wishes a refund, that is what he is due. If he is willing to accept a credit (even one with a premium), he is free to do that. But, to be very clear, it is the passenger, not the carrier's option.

The value of a chargeback is that it puts the burden on A3 to demonstrate that it does not owe a refund. It cannot do that, so it will eventually lose. At the same time, it's merchant acquirer will, over time, increase its chargeback holdback and that makes operations even more difficult. Thus, an even greater incentive for A3 to obey the law.

Having an argument about whether Greece or Germany or Sweden are "better" is hardly productive and belongs in OMNI if it belongs anywhere.

That's definitely a recent development. I have had 4 vouchers issued for cancelled flights and only received the ticket value. If I had been given 10% extra, I would be a little happier!

I found the excerpt:

• If your flight was cancelled after 30/06/2020, you can opt for a refund through our call center and only if you booked your ticket through an AEGEAN point of sale (website, call center, airport). Kindly note that due to the high volume of requests, it can take several weeks to process your refund request and get back to you. Alternatively, you may request a Credit Voucher, whose value will be increased by an additional 10% of the value of your initial ticket.

Where did you find that - in the regular T&C? I'm about to call them for ANOTHER refund (yesterday they cancelled a flight I had in October) and it would be good ammunition.

As for the 10% bonus on the voucher - I was also offered that for this latest cancellation. Can anybody who's accepted one tell me - is it 10% on just the carrier part of the ticket (excluding taxes) or 10% of the whole value. I'm guessing the former. Thx.

No - it's the whole value...

Yes, 10% extra on the whole value of the ticket. And then for some reason (maybe system limitations) they round up to the next integer.
It's from the overall info point below the header menu - Current flight information - COVID-19. And then Flight schedule - What should I do if my flight is cancelled?.

FYI - I just received notice that my October flight on Aegean was canceled. In the email and on the website, the voucher appears to be the only option. However, after several attempts to contact Aegean by phone, I finally got through and was able to request a refund. But they are very clear that the process to refund it may take 3-6 MONTHS!

Since I’m not planning a trip to or through Greece right now, and was willing to accept a voucher, anticipating that we would ask for a refund in a year from now, I went ahead and requested the refund. I figure it will come through when I’m finally booking travel again!

Same here - flight also cancelled in October and only voucher option displayed.
Will check what I will do - I fear that they are close to bancruptcy, so you will either way have low chances to get something...

They are not close to bankruptcy, but if you're afraid you'll lose your money why don't you just chargeback through your card issuer? That way you'll get your money 100%.

Why wait?

If your refund has not been initiated within 7 days, you should dispute the charge through your credit card issuer's chargeback process. Just make certain to document it fully and to do everything in writing. No reason for you to make interest-free loans to A3.

I don’t know if you were referring to me or to the other poster who wrote after me, but I’ve already done 2 chargebacks for tickets canceled this past spring and anticipate that I will need to do it for my overseas flight for this fall, so I’m being circumspect now when I use the dispute option. I may need to do it but I want to give it time to see if I will get it sooner than later.

I have now received a refund of €197.76 for a cancelled redemption ticket. This was paid into a Cyprus bank account rather than being refunded to the credit card originally charged. The Aegean (gold card) agent was extremely friendly and apologised for the refund details being mishandled - it seems that there is now a very different attitude among Aegean staff handling refunds. On another refund due, I was informed that the ticket details had been lost and they promised to work on the matter and get back to me as soon as possible. The waiting time on the English-language telephone line was only one minute both times that I called. It is perhaps best to deal with one refund at a time to avoid confusion.

My flight in December has been just cancelled, no notification yet, I've noticed it by chance.

AEGEAN Gold member call center (not nice experience at present) refuses to make re-route according to 261/2004.
Technically, it means almost the same departure time but two flights (A3+LH) instead of one (A3) direct flight.
Is it wrong to demand re-routing?

If they can't get you to your destination within 24 hours, then in normal times you are not wrong to demand re-routing. But during this pandemic anything goes!!!

From September 1st 261/2004 applies again for all Greek airlines. Having said that, even before the pandemic is was doubtful (and VERY difficult) to get re-routed onto another carrier more than 2 weeks out. If you have other options available to you I would try those - as that will likely save a lot of headache ;)

untill 30 sept, Aegean is proteckted by the greek voucher law!

There is no requirement in EC 261/2004 for rerouting on other carriers. You may demand anything, but that does not mean that A3 will honor your request.

What would the new ticket cost you to purchase. You are certainly entitled to a refund of your existing A3 ticket and if the new ticket is about the same price (or even cheaper), I would go at it that way.

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This is wrong. EC261/2004 certainly does oblige the airline to provide alternative routing at the customer's request if the airline cannot provide their own flights within 24 hours of original time of arrival. Read the regulations in full.

A lot of people get confused with airlines' obligation to compensate and duty of care (if within the 14 day time period), but that doesn't get them off the hook if they cancel a flight and leave the passenger out of pocket. Why should I pay an extra, say, 150 EUR for an alternative carrier just because the airline decides to save money cancelling their own flight.

I got Aegean to rebook me on Turkish Airlines when they cancelled my flight. All it took was a message to remind them of their legal obligations (as above!).

That said, at the moment they will certainly squirm out of doing it, they have totally ignored EC261/2004 regarding refunds!