FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - NYC airports using airline ticket agents agents of the government
Old Oct 23, 2007, 1:04 pm
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SpaceCoastBill
Formerly known as billinaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
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NYC airports using airline ticket agents agents of the government

I arrived at the John F Kennedy Airport in NYC and went to the America West ticket counter in Terminal 7.

I told the ticket agent that I needed an unloaded firearm tag to put in the bag I was checking that contained an unloaded gun.

The ticket agent looked at me with a puzzled look on his face and I repeated my request. He went to another agent who pointed to some boxes containing forms on a cart.

The agent went over and placed a multi part form in front of me and told me to fill it out. I recognized the form as one that is used when flying while armed in the cabin. I informed the ticket agent he had the wrong form and I needed the small orange card that went inside the bag. He walked away and came back with the with the correct tag and put it in front of me and said fill this out. I signed it and gave it back to him.

After he filled out the airline portion I reached for the tag to put it in the bag and he said that the tag does not go in the bag yet.

After checking my other bags, the ticket agent took my bag and told me to follow him to the CTX machine that was around the terminal in the United Airlines area. At this point, the ticket agent took possession of a firearm in NYC.

At the CTX machine, before the bag was screened or opened, the TSO called the PAPD. This is one point I would like to bring up.

At this point the NYC area airports are the only ones in the USA who are doing this. This is not SOP for any other airport. This brings this area out of the consistent screening promised by the TSA years ago.

I have been through major airports including Phoenix Arizona , Dallas Ft Worth Texas, Washington DC, and Orlando Florida and done the exact same thing and the screening was absolutely consistent. Once the tag is signed and in the bag, then it went through the CTX machine and possibly opened by a TSO. Never in any case was one of the airport LEOs called, notified, or requested. The bag then went through to be loaded on the aircraft in the baggage compartment.

The PAPD is using this procedure to arrest people who may not have a local NYC permit. This was not applicable to me, however I still feel that this procedure is a selective enforcement of local laws that if the following conditions are met do NOT require the possession of a NYC gun permit or license:

1.) The person is not a prohibited possessor of firearms or ammunition as defined by federal law.

2.) The person is permitted to possess a firearm at their departure point and their destination point. For example if flying from Connecticut where they have a permit to possess a firearm to Arizona where the permit is recognized.

3.) The person travels with the gun secured in the case not accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle and takes that bag containing the firearm directly to the ticket agent to declare it.

4.) The person declares the unloaded firearm packed in accordance with TSA and FAA guidelines to the airline.

According to the US Department of Justice in a letter dated February 18, 2005 this is exactly the intent of the United States Code 18 U.S.C. Section 926A. According to the letter the DOJ informed the appropriate law enforcement agencies of this information. I have attached a copy of this letter. The letter is also available the internet at:

http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf

Nowhere in the DHS, TSA, or FAA rules is there a requirement for a local law enforcement agency to intervene in the process of legally declaring a firearm to be placed in the baggage compartment of an airplane.

While this may be the SOP for NYC airports, it still does not make it lawful or right. Just because of local opinions that may be unfavorable to gun owners, it still is not the right thing to subvert the Federal requirements so that local opinion of a local law may be enforced.

I fully support DHS and TSA in their pursuit of making the skies safe through their published regulations.

It does not make the flying public any safer by enforcing local laws that conflict with Federal Statutes. The Federal Statue in this case preempts local laws if the person traveling has complied with the TSA and FAA requirements. It is not the local agencies responsibility to perform this search or intrusion into the activity of someone traveling lawfully.

PAPD officers have acknowledged that the case would most likely get dismissed (as they have been to date). Knowing that the cases are not being prosecuted amounts to unnecessary harassment and incarceration of people who have complied with their legal requirements when declaring an unloaded firearm. There is currently a lawsuit against the Port Authority on this very issue.



My other concern is the TSO (Chris #18588) who started writing down enough information to identify my bag as containing a firearm. I asked him why he was doing that and he said he and to list the bag as containing a firearm. I told him that it was not permitted to identify a bag that contained a firearm. He told me that was what was required and I again told him that it was not only not required, but a violation of federal law. This was not an SOP at any other airport.

He continued to write the information to allow my bag to be identified as containing a firearm and I asked him for a complaint form. He asked me why and got argumentative when I told him I did not think he should be making the information on the firearm in my bag available to anyone. After continuing to be argumentative, I again asked for a complaint form. I never got the complaint form from him.

I have been in contact with Judy Finkelstein at the JFK Airport on this issue and she is going to discuss it with the AFSD/LE and the FSD. I would like to compliment Judy on her open minded conversation with me and her willingness to listen to other points of view.

I do however feel this issue also needs review at the national level rather than solely at a local level and that this policy should come from the DHS upper management to either approve or revise the current procedure at NY area airports.

Last edited by SpaceCoastBill; Oct 23, 2007 at 2:33 pm
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