Originally Posted by
TWA Fan 1
Also, I wonder what your methodology is for stating that E+ fares are revenue neutral when the range of coach fares is so dizzying? If you're saying that E+ is revenue neutral compared to full E+ Y, then, of course.
The fact is, though, that most international premium coach require something approximating a full fare, making it, in essence, J Lite.
Most PE fares do not approach full Y. Much lower than that.
For example, from Houston to Hong Kong. During the spring time when coach is around $1,000 on CO or BR in coach, BR's PE is about $1,300. I know as some of my cousins do fly BR in Evergreen Deluxe/Elite rather than CO, despite the extra stop. Subtracting taxes and fees, money that BR collect is about 20-30% more. But it's 8-abreast on a 747, vs 10-abreast; 37" pitch vs 33". You do the maths.
Or if you look at UA. They let non-Elites to pay $299 to get E+ seats for a whole year, including a companion. If just a couple flying a two roundtrip longhauls, that's less than $100 extra they're getting per person on a longhaul roundtrip.
Granted, there are some airlines that seem to be able to charge more for PE, like BA. Looking at some JFK-LHR fares in the fall, they seem to command about a 50% premium over cheapest coach. Good for them, but the PE price is still less than full Y.
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Anyways, my point is that PE doesn't bring in more money for the airlines. Or else why do SQ or CX's new 773ERs fleet don't have them? You think those airlines executives do not know how to calculate?
And look at QF. It competes fiercely with BA and VS on the Kangaroo Route and with NZ on trans-Pacific, and only with the A380 do they start offering PE. And how many seats they put on that plane? 32! 32 seats on a 501-seat plane. That's how important PE is.
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And you guys want to talk pitch. Here are some international "second-rate" airlines that have 31" pitch: AC (763), BA (744 10-abreast too!), ANA (744 10-abreast again!), EK (343), KL (M11 and 744), LH (A346), NW (744), QF (333 and 744 - some of those people fly all the way from OZ to Europe! No wonder so many are dying of DVT!), SAA, USAirways (333)