Hi whughes3,

<<1) re the change from km to miles..sorry to be a cynic, but I remain to be convinced that it is anything other than a ploy to make it hard to compare the old system with the new, and to conceal the fact that behind all the hype, it's a pretty ordinary deal for the majority of people. >>

I guess it was never going to easy convincing the sceptics

Don’t condemn QF too quickly – give me a chance to explain!

I am not sure what other examples to give you convince you that it is not a ploy? The basic fact is that airlines alliances are becoming critical to the success of the airlines – QF simply can’t afford to be out on it’s own when all its major partners (CX, AA and BA) operate in miles.

So far we have gone through all the economy combs, upgrades and other some recogntion features... now lets look at business class.

<<2) one real horror story which hasn't had much comment so far is the treatment of BC pax (FC too, but that's academic for me!).
In the current scheme, BC pax got about 80% more points than discount economy; BC reward flights cost 25% (dom) or 50% (int) more points. In the new scheme, BC gets only 25% more points; BC flights cost 50-100% more! THIS STINKS! It is surely the worst treatment of BC pax by any FF scheme anywhere! (The US airlines are a bit ordinary in this regard, but nowhere near as bad as this). Is this considered the way to treat high-value customers? Myself (current Silver) I will get 12% less points for BC flights under the new scheme...thanks a lot!>>

There are a couple of points to go through:

1. It is much easier to move up the tiers in Qantas program when flying business or first class (in fact much easier than other US or Asian carriers). Less than 4 J class return trips SYD-LAX to retain Platinum status (just over 4 to qualify for the first time). You will find both AA and UA require substantially more round trips to qualify for 1K or exec plat. Because you move up the tiers faster on QF flying J class you get the tier bonuses much faster (which off-set the move to mile). Also note that bronze (current non-tiers) do more than 95% of their travel in discount economy – business class earn rates have very little impact on their overall points balances. So tier bonuses are designed to reverse or lessen the impact of the move to miles. Also current silvers are much more likely to make it to platinum (and stay) under the new scheme – especially for travel outside the Qantas network (many more tier credits).

2. Lets do a benchmark of US programs versus QF (in J classes):
Domestic premium: QF 30,000 for less than 2000 miles and 45,000 for other domestic and trans-Tasman flights. AA/UA 40,000 or 80,000 (depending on availability) – within 48 states; UA/AA 60,000 or 120,000 (depending on availability) – Hawaii.
International medium-hall (Australia to Asia versus USA to South America): QF 100,000 for less than 10,000 miles (includes SIN, HKG, BKK, etc). AA 90,000 or 180,000 (depending on availability); UA 80,000 or 150,000 (depending on availability).
Long-haul (SYD-LAX): QF 160,000. UA 90,000 or 150,000 (depending on availability). AA do not fly this route - use QF.
So I think the conclusion is that QF is pretty competitive – some lower and some higher. Now compare with other Asian/European carriers…. Now compare with the cash fare difference Y to J…. also remember you can use your upgrade certs or use points to upgrade on international routes. Ah yeah almost forgot Qantas has also extended the life of the upgrade certificates (so you can accumulate for use on international flights) – 1 year to 2 years.

3. Business class cabin bonus: 25% is pretty standard although some European carriers offer higher cabin bonuses with no tier status bonuses.

4. Business class minimum earn is 1250 points - so on a standard SYD-MEL you don't get 11% less points. You get 42% more points. Once again the minimum earn has been left out.... it benefits everyone on short-haul sectors (once again check your FF statement and count all thouse little transfer/connector flights). It adds up!


<< Ozstamps, I know exactly what BC seats cost..I actually buy them occasionally! My point was that even UA asks only 50% extra points for BC award seats vs. economy, not 100%. And whether or not only 25% extra points for BC is the 'industry norm', it's still a ripoff, and a large backwards step for Qantas customers.>>

As discussed above this is not quite correct. For example UA charge 25,000 for the cheapest economy redemption and 40,000 or 80,000 points for the corresponding business class seat. Look at the AA rates for the US to Europe (Y is 40,000+ business starts at 90,000).

As discussed the 25% is complemented by the tier bonuses (25-100%).

<<As for the 'real world', may I point out that UA (and most US airlines) are presently losing money at a great rate. Maybe they need a few more paying BC pax.. >>
Hmmm… Southwest is the most profitable US airline and they don’t have a business class – so I am not sure the number of points you issue in business class has any correlation to airline profitability….

Hi Aarono,

<<I am starting to think I should have joined UA FF scheme. I have been with QANTAS a few years now and bought a one world global explorer ticket because of this. I think now I should have one with star alliance. Seems to be more benefits and higher rewards. I am living in NYC city at the moment and have friends visiting, I will tell them to fly UA so that they get more FF points. Can they do the day stops like you?>>
Looks like I have failed in my quest to spread the word on Qantas FF program

The oneworld explorer tickets represent the best value RTW ticket – don’t have to pay more for more miles (like star) – great way to rack up points and status quickly.

Cheers… Bruce

[This message has been edited by bruceb (edited 03-17-2001).]