Originally Posted by
lhong
That's right, a world where kids don't kick is indeed an unrealistic, utopian ideal. I present as exhibit A the real world. Every kid has had a meltdown in a public place at least once. For some kids, that public place happens to be on an airplane. For some kids, that kicking meltdown will include screaming, crying, punching, seat grabbing, and lying on the ground having forgotten how to walk.
You misunderstand me. I'm well aware that kids melt down from time to time. That's the point. I flew when I was a kid (though not until I was 8 or so), and I also had my occasional melt downs. They never occurred on a plane, however -- it was never the slightest possibility because I was well aware of the consequences if I did. I don't pretend to be an expert on parenting and, frankly, I don't know what my parents did, but I know that the prospect of melting down in an airplane, a restaurant, a theater, etc., was completely unthinkable and beyond the realm of possibility. And it wasn't just me -- kids melting down in those venue simply didn't happen. I don't know what's changed, but parents inflicting ill-behaved kids on strangers is a relatively recent development -- within the last 20 or 30 years.
The fact that a lot of parents these days think it is acceptable doesn't make it so.
BTW, I believe you said it's unacceptable for any kicking to occur, interim or not, but you were gracious enough to ignore the interim kind, as judged by yourself.
Let me be clear: by "seat kicking" I mean the kind of repetitive contact that occurs when a child swings his or her feet. Everyone contacts the seat in front from time to time. It's unavoidable and the result of simple physics.
Since when was I making excuses. You're talking about your rights, I'm talking about reality. I already agreed that it's wrong for children to kick the seat in front of them, even a single time. I'm just pointing out that it's still going to happen, and there are things you can do to help minimize it. Standing on your perceived rights might make you a martyr in your mind, but cooperating with others will actually get the results you desire.
If I understand you, you're saying, "the reality is I can't control my kid all the time and there will be times when he will kick your seat." If that's true, then your kid shouldn't fly until he is old enough to understand that he cannot kick the seat in front of him and, in fact, won't. The reality may be that kids aren't controllable (though see above -- my parents and the parents of their generation managed to do it), but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to endure the conduct of uncontrollable kids in every venue.
Didn't I say that in my previous post? If the FA think's it's excessive, they can stop the behavior, and in extreme cases, call the police. If not, you will need to live with being annoyed. You don't get to act as judge, jury, and executioner here, and the standard of conduct is not "does it annoy PTravel".
Can you honestly say, with a straight face, that having your seat kicked isn't annoying? Can you honestly say, with a straight face, that it wouldn't annoy you if someone, kid or adult, did it to you?
I was willing to work with you and reduce your annoyance factor even more, but since you're more interested in complaining than getting anything done, I'm out of this thread. Enjoy your pyrrhic victory, rest assured you have done nothing to change the world.
Please tell me what "willing to work with me" means. All I've heard from you is, essentially, "kids will do it some time -- live with it." Sorry. Seat kicking is
never acceptable and no one has the right to tell someone else, "live with it."