Originally Posted by
HedgeFundFlyer
I don't think kicking a seat is privileged by any means. Look, I'm on the side of everyone who wants a peaceful trip. My bottom-line point in my above posts is that it is totally unrealistic to expect a peaceful trip on every flight because it is a public space and, well, it's open to the Lowest Common Denominator ("LCD") effect (apologies that that sounds elitist -- open to suggestions). As most people have pointed out, repeated seat kicking by a child is in reality very rare, and when it does happen it's clearly the parents' faults, and it's probably fine to say something politely to the parent.
I have never suggested a flight will be totally peaceful. What I have said is that seat kicking is an unacceptable imposition on other passengers. It is not excusable and not something that anyone should have to put up with. If your child your child doesn't kick seats, then it's simply not an issue. As I noted, I've encountered seat kicking very, very rarely. Based on that, I assume that seat kicking is not something that a lot of kids do, nor is it something that most parents are willing to allow.
More common, though, are the other disturbances by kids, like screaming, crying, touching, etc. At times these are impossible to control, and that's just the way it is.
That's an entirely different issue. I'm not sure what you mean by, "touching." Kids are not privileged to touch strangers. As for screaming and crying, it depends on the context. No one is going to get upset over short-lived impositions, e.g. a baby that cries on landing and take off because of pressure changes in their ears, However, if a kid is prone to prolonged crying or screaming, it is rude and discourteous to take the kid on long-hauls or redeyes.
I understand these are annoying. With kids under a certain age, however -- generally innocent children who are not fully aware of what's going on -- it's hard to get too upset in my book. I know people disagree.
I want to be clear: I never blame kids. Kids, by definition, are immature and don't have full volitional control over their actions, nor can they exercise judgment as to what is or is not appropriate behavior in public. However, their parents are certainly capable of exercising judgment and it is the parent who I blame for bringing a child into a situation where the child creates a significant disruption that imposes on others.
What puzzles me, and what got me involved in this discussion in the first place, is the implicit (intended or not) argument that somehow kids are the worst offenders in the airspace, which I think is clearly false.
This thread is about seat kicking. I don't recall any posts about anything other than that.
I've listed some of the LCD violations that drive me crazy previously. Most of these LCD violations are perpetrated by adults. This past weekend I flew IAH-LAS in F on CO, which I admit is asking for it, but I had to make the trip. There were several young 20-something boys on the flight in F, baseball hats on backwards, very loud, etc. One of them sat behind me. He had earphones on. Halfway through the flight my seat started getting kicked. Repeatedly. In a bad rhythm. He was "jamming" to his music, and thought that trying to replicate the beat on my seat was acceptable behavior. I finally turned around and gestured to him to stop kicking my seat. This got some "ooohs" from his "buddies" and, sadly, harder kicking.
I was once on a Southwest flight from Las Vegas with my wife and elderly mother. A group of 20-somethings seated behind us did pretty much the same thing. I asked them, nicely, to stop. They didn't. I called the FA, who asked them to stop. They didn't. After the FA asked them for the third time, and as he was walking away, one of the 20-somethings kicked my wife's seat as hard as she could, doubling it over. The FA notified the pilot and the pilot notified the police, who met the plane and detained the 20-something. My wife and I elected to not press charges, but we could have.
And that's the point.
This kind of behavior, when committed by an adult, is not only impermissible, it is criminal. The fact that a child is the one doing the kicking doesn't make it any less acceptable -- it is not privileged.
I thought about this thread, and reminded myself to be stoic. Finally he stopped. I almost got up to mention the behavior to an FA, and probably would have if he hadn't stopped, but ultimately there's not much to do in this kind of situation, especially with a jerk who is intent on antagonizing me because I objected to his right to jam.
It's fine if you chose the stoic approach. I wouldn't have. I would have called over the FA and required his or her intervention. If that didn't work, I'd ask that the pilot be notified.
LCD behavior is a risk whenever there are a lot of people on top of each other, e.g. in movie theaters, planes, buses, subways, etc.
Sorry, I don't buy that. What you've defined as LCD behavior is rude and inconsiderate imposition, pure and simple. On buses and subways, it's possible to remove oneself from the source. In movie theaters and on planes it is not. This kind of behavior in public is a relatively new development -- it certainly wasn't common a couple of decades ago. When I was growing up, my parents would never bring me to public places where my natural propensities would constitute a nuisance to other people.
I myself avoid LCD situations like the plague. A parent that truly allows a child to terrorize other passengers on a plane (or, for that matter, diners in a restaurant, etc. etc.) is an LCD phenomenon. A lot of other behaviour by children does not fall into this category.
Seat-kicking certainly does.