Originally Posted by
NickB
Originally Posted by GUWonder
UA's Y+ is usually just the forward part of the Y cabin and it's not sold on a premium cabin fare basis; it's also generally available for free, even in the absence of op-ups, to UA elites booked on the cheapest fares for the coach cabin and requires no reticketing/reissuance or fare code change to get that seating. That's probably why UA gets away with EconomyPlus. Also UA's EconomyPlus is not really a premium economy product since all it gives is a bit more legroom in the same seat, generally in the same cabin, with the same exact service as the rest of Y and is sold and booked into Y-cabin fare inventory.
No. Y+ has a different seating configuration with greater pitch (that is the whole point of Y+). According to HM customs definition of a separate cabin, Y+ would fall into it, if Y+ is marketed separately. HM customs will not regard it as marketed separately if it is not advertised in advance and if people end up in there at random or by virtue of early booking. OTOH, if you end up in there by virtue of being elite or by virtue of paying a supplement (such as the UA Y+ supplement), then the operator is deemed to have created an additional cabin and the higher rate of APD is due. UA falls neatly and squarely within that.
As to what they would do, they would have 3 choices:
1) absorb themselves the extra cost (rather substantial once APD doubles - could be almost as much as the base fare for winter east coast cheapos, so in effect equivalent to flying elite flyers from LON to IAD on very low fares for free)
2) require the extra tax payment at check-in time (some airlines do that for upgrades to C class, eg Continental)
3) Take LON routes out of the programme and let people sit in Y+ on a first come first serve basis without requiring payment or elite status so as to avoid the classification as premium cabin.
With regard to exit rows, HM customs notice specifically exclude things such as exit rows. Sitting in an exit row cannot be regarded as sitting in a separate cabin.
I seem to be missing which part of my post you are refuting exactly with your "no".
1. UA's Econ+ is usually just the forward part of the Y cabin; and
2. UA's Econ+ is generally available for free, even in the absence of op-ups, to UA elites (and even most Star Golds who care to ask) even when booked on the cheapest fares for the coach cabin -- with this not requiring a reticketing/reissuance/revalidation of ticket or any change in fare code or inventory booked to get that seating; and
3. there is no special fare basis/inventory that guarantees a seat in Econ+; and
4. UA's Econ+ is not akin to any other premium economy product marketed by the other carriers since all it gives is a bit more legroom in the same seat as every other coach seat on the same plane, generally is part of the same cabin and not physically separated, has the same exact service as the rest of coach and is sold as and booked into Y-cabin fare inventories (Y, B, H, L, V, M, N, etc.) and not some special inventory that guarantees entitlement to those seats.
With VS, BD, and BA, going from econ to premium economy requires a ticket reissuance (presuming we are not talking about op-up/irregular operation situations) or buying into a fare that is used almost exclusively for premium economy purposes when it comes to tickets issued by that operator for its own flights.
If UA had a dedicated fare inventory which was, by itself, a contract for Econ+ seats, that would be one thing and it would move me a bit in your direction. However, UA doesn't have such AFAIK. On most every UA flight as of late that I've been on, there have been a great number of people on cheap coach tickets in the UA Econ+ section who were neither frequent flyers nor op-uped. Many just get up and sit in an open seat in Econ+ or just ask for a particular seat number at check-in (that happens to be in the front rows of coach which are Econ+) and they're in the same seats as everyone else in coach but with a couple extra inches of leg room.
Currently UA is not absorbing APD for UA Econ+ seats nor do UA passengers get charged APD for UA Econ+ seats. Is that going to change? Nothing foretells such yet. Maybe BA, BD and VS will cry bloody murder later, but so far UA's Econ+ seems not to have moved them.
If UA's Econ+ were deserving of the higher APD, then why not the exit rows when those are limited to higher fare tickets and elites?