Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
Not sure what about my post stimulated such a (heated ?) response from you
Traveloguy, espec. as you will see that most of the posts in the weeks between the OP and your post (and since !), many from regular IB flyers, concur with my experiences and observations.
Apologies. I certainly had no intention of making my post seem to heated! Must be the phase of the moon!
I do feel however that it seems many people go on an IB flight expecting things will go wrong and often things do go wrong largely because people go in with that negative attitude - i.e. it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
The answer to your question is that it was (LHR-)
MAD-TLV (and back) which is officially 5h 15m (and on this day was even longer), and is
over 7 hours on some flights/days (I found out since) due to a stop-off in Barca on the way/way back.
Ouch! I would never have expected an A320 operating on that route.
I should mention that BA do have a route that is slightly longer and that is the LGW-SSH service which is also on a A320 and unfortunately also offers the same level of IFE (i.e. nothing). LGW-RAK is also pretty similar.
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
Secondly, I'm not sure why you feel the need tell me "...that the rest of the world is not like Australia and Asia" when I live in London (UK), have done so (apart from a year or two) for 30 years, fly mostly shorhaul in Europe (30-40 sectors a year minimum these days - about 60% in Y, 40% in J) - in addition to my relatively frequent travel to the Middle-East, the US, and Asia and Oz - and am making my comments/comparisons in regards these flight experiences. (Did you assume from all my posts on QF Forum etc that I am Oz/Asia based ?)
Actually my comment was not meant to be taken in such light but apologies again - it was certainly not my intention to cause offence!
I do however feel that regional European flights (& to North Africa) possibly has the worst service in the world. In general carriers provide little or no IFE even on medium haul to long haul Euro flights and the seating tends to be tight. This applies to both BA, IB as well as other European carriers - just ask
Smirnoff and his feelings on BA's offerings to Moscow - there is a whole thread devoted to the topic!
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
And you
'break it' to me (
) that
"any A320 services on any OW carrier in Europe..." on a flight of that length would not have IFE etc, but if you have a good look at my post you will see that that is exactly the point -
why are they flying such an aircraft on such a route ? No other OW carrier would. And why, on top of this, do IB choose (as their management have) not to use video equipment that they actually have on board ? Even the LCCs/charter carriers on similar length route from London for e.g. (the likes of Monarch etc) provide IFE on the big screen.
That's the thing. I have been on many 3-4 hour flights on BA and I have yet to see any IFE beyond the safety demos.
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
On the equiv. routes (LON-TLV, LON-CAI, etc) BA fly on 'long haul aircraft' with a 3 class service, with full service in Y with personal screen IFE, NCW seats in J, and the full F service (yes, including the 'pyjamas' if you ask for them !
). And see
Gardyloo's post re. your other BA observation.
Therefore, in answer to the real question at hand here, on 5h+ direct international flights in my experience
EVERY SINGLE other OW carrier apart from IB provides IFE etc ! (Not just QF and CX, but on such medium haul also BA, AA, etc, etc). And one of the reasons is that no other OW carrier (not even I believe [from what I have read on FT]) the [soon to be departing] LCC that is Scare Lingus) would consider treating (in usual circumstances) a 5h+ international flight as short-haul, and impose such a low level of experience/comfort on its paying pax.
The routes you quote are premium routes for BA and don't reflect the whole BA Euro flight network. There is quite a large Jewish population here in London and therefore lots of business traffic and the same for CAI. High numbers necessitate the use of a larger aircraft thus all the facilities as all 777s etc have NCW etc. Remember that even on the LHR-TLV route, the 767 service which operates one of the two dailies was only recently 'dusked' a few months back so if you got that old 767 served flight and you were in Club, you would end up in a 'CE punishment seat'!
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
And
ALL other OW carriers certainly have real J on flights of such length - not one that has the same identical seats etc as in Y, just with a different seat head-cover, and a very minimal addition to the Y meal offering.
These infact are the points we need to
'keep reminding' ourselves of
.
I also find it odd that you can't see these points when, again as I posted, the IB CSM/D onboard the flight itself expressed her own annoyance at the very same issues (and had tried herself, without success of course, to get management to change policy) !
I think my statements above show that there are several other medium haul routes with a similar service on BA.
Originally Posted by Aisle Seat H
And, btw, whether you intended to or not (and I would like to assume having read many of your posts on FT before that you
didn't), your opening comments about my experience (
"Where were you flying that would require a 5+ hour flight on an A320? They can't really fly that much further than that in the first place?") read as if/implied that you don't believe that they actually took place. Your shock/amazement at the fact that IB would fly such a lengthy route on such an aircraft and with so little services should instead be reserved for/directed at IB itself.
It is my opinion (and of other here, as previous posts testify [like
wandering_fred's - who I see was forced by IB to do just such a stop-off in Barca on way to the Middle-East
]) that it is a disgrace that in 2006 an OW carrier operate such a flight/service. (And please remember that IB policy now is to run such a service on
ALL their routes of such/similar length, not just to TLV). And this is by any objective standard, not just that of Asian carriers. I have little doubt that if you had actually been on such a flight - like myself,
wandering_fred, etc - you would agree 100%.
I agree that the above is not a good situation. IB (and BA) really should be providing better services on flights of 3.5+ hours, especially for those sitting in premium cabins considering the fares they charge on these routes. My only point in my post is that I feel that IB often takes stick for its services, but they are not the only guilty carrier. I have only flown on LHR-HEL route or Asian routes with AY so I really cannot comment on what equiptment they ply on their medium haul routes, but on the 3 hour shuttle to LHR they certainly have no IFE - just the usual map. Fortunately they do offer great in-flight service in terms of booze and food so it generally makes up for the lack of IFE.
All I am going to say is thank goodness for the invention of the Ipod! Generally on these sorts of services I take my laptop with a decent movie or TV show and watch that. Unfortunately I suspect that will be the way to go in the future too as none of the competition offer terribly much in Europe. Until that changes I cannot see IB nor BA offering much more than they currently do.
Again, apologies if you felt my post was seen as a personal attack as it certainly was not intended to be!
