Originally Posted by manhattan92
I recently flew Northwest from DTW to Manila on a 747-400 “World Business” class. As a loyal Platinum Elite Continental passenger for well over a decade, I had always assumed that Business First was the best US international business class and only tried Northwest this time because of the huge difference in flight times. Having now experienced NW’s business class, I am not all sure that CO has a better product. Here are the main comparisons:
• The 747-400 is a more comfortable plane than anything CO flies, the 777 included. For flights of 10 or more hours, there is nothing better than the space, width and general open feel of the 747.
• The NW seats reclined to 176 degrees and were infinitely more comfortable than Business First’s 777 “sleeper seats.” You don’t feel like you are sliding down and going to land a row in front of you via the space underneath the seat in front. The non-777 seats are in a substantially more inferior category. The seat layout on CO is better since NW has some rows of 3-across seating, though that can sometimes work better for a family of 3 traveling together.
• In-flight entertainment on NW was a joy—dozens of in-demand movies with a huge, good-definition monitor. CO’s IFE is primitive in comparison both in terms of availability of features and the miniscule screen size.
• Laptop power—NW had a standard AC plug at every seat that did not require an adaptor. CO needs the empower adaptor—another disadvantage.
• The food service on CO is superior to NW. Both the variety and quality of CO’s meals are better and NW needs to cover up their ugly, battered food carts when they serve meals. The carts can immediately kill your desire for a stylish meal with their dents, scruff marks and apparent filth.
• The NW World Club lounges I visited in DTW were better than the Presidents Club. Self service alcoholic and soft drinks with a good variety of snacks and wireless internet plus a generally nicer design translate into a better lounge product.
I honestly believe that Business First is becoming a tired product with little or no innovation in the last 3-4 years. The only major “improvement” was the introduction of the falsely named sleeper seats on 777’s . The seats are neither flat nor comfortable. IFE on CO is a 1980’s technology and the huge number of 757 international flights make we wonder why I should sit for hours in a cramped plane, watching a fuzzy movie on a small screen based upon a flight attendant’s schedule without being to comfortably sleep. CO needs to devote attention and invest in improving its Business Class product. It is already far behind Virgin Atlantic, British Airways, Singapore and the like. Now, it seems to be slipping through stagnation, even behind NWA.
First, let me say that this is a very well-articulated comparison. I have yet to fly the new WBC (I've only been on the old barcalounger-style) but I've flown BF many times on the 767s and 777. BF certainly was a cut above other US carriers' business classes when it was first rolled out. I find that the strengths of BF are the food (even better than VS Upper Class food, IMO), service, and presidents' club access. These elements seem fairly consistent. I don't mind the seats in either the 767 or 777, but they certainly are not outstanding. I actually think that for sleeping, the 767 seats are better than the 777 seats in the reclined position. I definitely have the slide-down probelm on the 777. When compared with UA and AA C, BF is better hands down. But when compared with major international carriers' C/J, BF certainly is not the best. At this point, I think the most irritating aspect of BF is the lack of quality IFE. VS, NW, KL, and others all have AVOD with modern digital, large screens in J. This is why I try to use international partners on int'l award travel (VS/EK, etc.).
For whatever reason, CO is sufficiently comfortable with the BF product to have held out this long on updating it. IMO, CO simply should install new, comfortable sleeper seats similar to what VS or BA have, along with an AVOD system like that of EK, but at the very least, like the new NW AVOD. That way they would have a consistent product accross aircraft and would have no problem competing with the likes of VS, BA, LH, etc accross the pond and CX, NH, SQ, etc accross the Pacific. I'd imagine that if CO is able to continue to improve the bottom line and UA and AA revamp their C class to something similar to AF or LH, then CO will finally make the plunge. As another poster alluded to, the few inferiorities of BF don't seem as big a deal if you on a BF standard award or snagged a Z fare to Europe, but if I'm buying a full J to LON, for example, I'm more inclined to give that money to VS from a value perspective.
Here's my brief summary of some other carriers' international business class products that I recently have experienced:
VS Upper Class 744: IMO, most comfortable J seat I've experienced. Good food in LHR clubhouse, mediocre food onboard (overdone steak was especially bad); onboard "chair" massage; loved the upper deck of a 744; LHR clubhouse is excellent; IAD clubhouse is pretty good. Wine and alcohol selection (although I tend not to drink on longhauls) was excellent. Hate LHR - the only saving grace is the VS maidens who walk you through the UC checkin process and let you use the expedited security/immigration lanes.
VS Upper Class 346: same as above, except the cabin did not feel as spacious as the center cabin of a 744 or private as the upper deck or nose section of a 744.
KLM new 332: Can board directly from the Wordclub at IAD. Great seat pitch - 60", wierd seats: comfortable in cradle position and were well-padded with good lumbar support and massage feature (that never seemed to work for more than five minutes at a time), but could never get comfortable enough to sleep and had the slide-down problem. Great AVOD with a nice 10" or so monitor. Food was not as good as BF and did not have as many selections, but acceptable for international J. The front cabin has three rows and the back cabin has two, so both had a mini-cabin feel, as opposed to the large front cabin of a CO 777. Love those KL miniatures they give away - my seatmate gave me hers on my most recent flight so I'm amassing a decent collection. Lounge staff in AMS rude and stern, of course ("sir, it is not possible to take away" was the response I got from a lounge worker when taking two tea bags from one of the lounges before connecting to a LHR flight, also in J). Lounges in AMS crowded and not really outstanding, especially early AM after the transatlantics start arriving. AMS airport generally makes for very smooth connections, however, as opposed to LHR and CDG.
KL 767: OLD. Horrible IFE. Food pretty much the same as on the 332. Seats worn and completely outdated, yet strangely comfortable. Acutally got somewhat of a better sleep in those than in the new 332 seat with massage.
EK 345 C: The best IFE I've seen - 14" screen, 100 movies on demand, I'm sure you all are familiar with the ICE system so I won't list all the details. Excellent service from the crews. DXB J lounge crowded, but nice with full buffets of breakfast and more lunch-oriented food. Havent' been to the new EK C/F in JFK but at the time I took the JFK-DBX run they were still using the EI lounge, which I think is excellent - has a great view of the runway and tarmac with all the heavies, as well. C seat also a bit weird, but I was comfortable for the entire 14 hour flights and had no problem sleeping in the "fully reclined" and cradle positions. Not as flat as a new NW WBC, KL WBC, or CO 777 BF. A lot of people think the EK C seats on the 345 are subpar; I thought they were fine. Also had the most complicated seat control I've ever seen. EK's greatest strength is the service and food/alcohol selection. The cabin crews were the most attentive I've seen in any business class, and on the JFK run in C, you get three full meals and can order a snack in between meals. I'm not a frequent EK flyer but there are many reports of inconsistent C service and hardware/IFE problems on the 345 over on the EK board.
NW classic WBC: Horrible IFE, decent food, and I find the barcaloungers comfortable.
So, I think that if CO could update BF with VS-style seats (and maybe a massage
), EK food and beverages (although existing BF food is not bad) and IFE, and maybe add a dedicated BF lounge in EWR with extra amenities, like a preflight dining service (this is probably not realistic), BF would again be the best J product around.