Originally Posted by Bart
Sorry. I enjoy the discussions about how airport security can be improved, and I appreciate the criticisms about some of the dumb aspects of security such as the no-fly list, banning of lighters, etc. However, if you want to have a serious discussion about liberty and fighting tyranny, then nothing in this forum has even approached that topic. We've got a whole bunch of cyber room patriots who have no idea of what true tyranny is and what it takes to truly combat oppression. Refusing to take off your f**king shoes just doesn't come close...it's not in the same ball park....it's not even in the same universe.
I apologize for the harsh tone of this post; but it's all a matter of true genuine perspective. I'm sure that even PoliceStateSurvivor would agree with me that although there are aspects of airport security he finds objectionable, we haven't even approached or come close to approaching the harsh realities of a genuine police state.
Please note I wasn't talking about removing shoes. In that post, I was referring to secret lists that the government is keeping and the fact that there is little to no due process for getting one's self off the list, or even finding out why you're on it.
If you view that as a good thing and a means of protecting liberty, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Please remember that I did work in the same field as you. I don't have as much experience you, but I do know more about intelligence, lists, Washington BS, etc, than a lot of people because I dealt with it and worked it on a daily basis. I know what they CAN do, and I believe they need to be kept on a short leash as not to abuse it.
If the agency I worked for was constantly breathing down people's necks about oversight and compliance, and scaring people with time at Club Fed for violating policies on protected entities, EVERY agency had better be under the same scrutiny. I was called to the carpet for a simple mistake, and I didn't get in trouble because of unknown identity at the time. I also know the mess that can happen when that policy IS violated and the repercussions that can happen down the road. I don't think DHS and TSA are under the same scrutiny.
No, removing shoes isn't a hallmark of facsism and tyranny, but secret government lists are. And if a Senator got hassled, had a hard time getting off the list, and only got off the list because of his clout and position as a US Senator, we have a serious problem. Most citizens don't have the clout, connections, or resources that Ted Kennedy did to get off the list. And yes, I've even seen people on official travel orders get hassled over this.
Secret lists are heading us down the wrong direction. I agree that certain aspects of the list need to be kept secret (as life is in the world of spooks), but there should be a due process to get people who are on the lists removed, and a way to ensure that innocent people aren't constantly getting flagged, harassed, and denied boarding simply for having the audacity to have the same name as someone who IS a threat. The current method does not allow this.
If someone truly is on the list that deserves to be, build a case and pick them up and get them off the streets.
Super