Originally Posted by Bart
We've got a whole bunch of cyber room patriots who have no idea of what true tyranny is and what it takes to truly combat oppression. Refusing to take off your f**king shoes just doesn't come close...it's not in the same ball park....it's not even in the same universe.
But it has to start somewhere. Countries have turned from democracies into tyrannies exactly because people "shut up and took it" - which is what you seem to be suggesting we do here.
Nobody is saying that the US today is exactly like Stalin's Russia where people get executed on a whim. But here in the US today we do have many (including top government officials) who argue for secret detentions of people who are secretly arrested for secret reasons. Didn't the "summary execution" states you complain about also lock people up with no charges, possibly secretly? Isn't this something that we
used to complain about every tyrant doing since the beginning of time?
You're right, this isn't East Germany or the Soviet Union where one needed government approval to travel inside the country. But there are people here who are advocating that kind of thing and the government, in many ways, is working towards it. Look at comments from people who think your credit score should determine if you're allowed to travel inside the country, or who want to give the government the ability to "no fly" people for secret reasons, or Congresspeople who think that the "no fly" list should determine if you're allowed entry into a public park. Isn't arbitrarily blacklisting people from travel what we used to complain about East Germany and the Soviet Union doing?
Just because we're not living under "true tyranny" it doesn't mean that we should just sit back and do or say nothing. The founding fathers weren't living under "true tyranny" either. They may have been taxed without representation, but that's not exactly Stalin. Yet the framers of the Constitution spoke, debated and wrote endlessly about freedom and liberty and worked to create a country where those principles were respected.
Four years ago the only reason the Patriot Act, a huge power grab, could pass was because it was "only temporary" and hastily pushed through when people were terrified and not paying attention. When it came up for renewal in December --
permanent renewal -- everyone fully expected it to sail through Congress with little or no debate, no public outcry, nothing. In fact, the only reason that it didn't get passed on that day was because the New York Times "coincidentally" published the NSA spying story on the same morning that it was up for a vote.
You really can't see how far we've come from 9/10 with regards to freedom, privacy, liberty, etc. and how fast it has happened? How far down the slope should we get before you think we're "allowed" to speak up? Will we even be allowed to speak up at that point? There was an article in last week's Newsweek about the Department of Defense's little known domestic spying program that is spying on such "dangerous" groups as some peaceful folks who protested outside of Haliburton's headquarters. And of course, we've read stories of other dissenters who "magically" found themselves on the "no fly" list.
Finally, saying "it's worse elsewhere" is not an argument. A greater percentage of the population of Ethiopia is starving than the American population. That doesn't really make me feel any better about starving kids here in the US.