the money order thread would have been better suited for the credit card forum where a certain visabuxx thread in that forum has similar debates woven throughout.
Anyway, Nako, I have to say I do agree with much of what you say and the way you put it. BUT I think you need to know that many of us are
not trying to trash you just because you have a different opinion. You just need to understand that, like email, a forum text is often not fully communicating the writer's full intent (icones or symbols or emphasis on words or phrases we speak in here are not always communicated or known how best to communicate in text format by all persons writing them)
SO some of what you said is agreeable to me, but I do have to say that in the world of miles, I have to cheat to win. And I admit this openly!
Is it wrong? maybe. But look at the one-sided obtuse ways of the airlines who market their false, and value-less product that hardly works for all people who get suckered into getting the mile product!
So yeah, I find tricky ways but it aint fraud. I cheat but I do not steal. Many of us do. I dont want to put someone out of business (except a scammer, or maybe points.com because they are one) but I also do not want to lose and I, as a consumer, have increasingly found it harder to NOT lose unless I amso tenacious that one would perceive me as someone who would want to put the other side out of business even when I don't!
Does that make sense?
We have to fight for ways to live!
And it is no more so true than in miles land! We have to fight--to keep up with changing rules, upping of award level requirements, and everything involving redemption. We have to fight to get half of what we want, and we fight a lot harder than some lazy store clerk who doesnt even know why he still sells money orders anyway! So, by gosh I will be seeking out and exploiting ANY WAY I CAN to get those darn miles and if money orders is one way, then I will use it til it dies!
At work, you show up and get paid and do your job and hopefully it puts money on the table. There are advocacies and resources to help maintain that theory of life's necessity. But with miles, we really only have each other to rely on for ways to get what we need to live. That being said, this thread's debate of what is right or wrong IS about miles, and the whole money order issue is one way to get them, so I WILL get them and this forum will hear about it!!
I will scratch and claw at every way I can to get them, in fact, and so will all of the people reading this, Nako included.
You (Nako) said two things that can be disputed that relate to this:
The transaction is not illegal. It is, however,
a violation of the merchant agreement of nearly
every single money order issuer in the United
States. This is for a couple of reasons:
1) It's an easy target for fraud. A stolen
credit card (which is fairly traceable) can be
easily converted to a more untraceable form, with no
real means for recovery of the goods.
2) It easily allows for the circumvention of
cash advance policies set forth by credit cards.
my reponse to #1 is this:
We are NOT trying to do fraud and we can prove it to CC companies that say we fall into that same category just because we churn gift cards and money orders. All we have to do is continue to tell them that we are more than willing to disclose our entire lives and that all we want is miles (not that I will, of course). For example, a CC company has alllll my info. When you sign up for a money order or gift card, you have to show ID or give alllll your info. Why then, does anyone think I am frauding? Why, because it LOOKS that way to some unknowing person who sees all my money order transactions? What if they just DID THEIR JOB MORE THOROUGLY and separted us and our transactions from the REAL fraudsters. We have to pay for what we do and we are more than willing to do so, and we tenaciously find ways to get deals, but they call it near-fraud. Why? Because we are good at it? Is that right? No.
We are BUYING money orders WITH our legal tender--be it cash or gift cards or debit cards or credit cards! How is that fraud? If they think it looks like fraud, that is wrong and we should be mad at them for accusing or assuming that is what we are.
banks love to use this excuse--and they are duping all of us by doing so--because that's their easy way out of a deal they know the F**K'd up on! they should instead FIRE their marketer and serve the economy by giving a better person the freakin job! There are some dummies with jobs out there and as a recruiter for martketing professionals, I know of a few great candidates who SHOULD be working who are not! that's because dummies run thinsg some times. I mean, look at the US itself! (ha ha)
My response to #2:
Yup, that's right. But you said it: we circumvent the policies... We aint breaking them as they are written.
We ciurumvent them! It IS a loophole, which you also said something about in your post. It just lasts longer than a one-off fare mistake, that's all. Still, NOT WRONG on our part to take some of this pie while it's there!
Lastly, why do stores like these even offer money orders? Maybe they should not. But i am glad--as I'm sure Ingy is--that they do! (And it's not Ingy's fault this is a big debate. it IS a good thread! thanks OP!
!MM
