If I quote everything that deserves a response, this'll be a mile long, so let me start by saying -
Symmetre Sopwith hirohito888 acrooksie THANK YOU, this is an actual productive conversation on the subject and each of you made points I enjoyed and appreciated.
"Here are concrete steps that could improve OTP and/or mitigate the effects of late flights" is a conversation worth having here, I just don't have a whole lot of time for "it's unconscionable, anyone involved must be stupid, and they should all be flogged".
Originally Posted by
Symmetre
First, AC could just be realistic about how long it takes them to turn an aircraft around. I get it - planes don't earn revenue when they're on the ground. But the simple fact is AC cannot turn an aircraft in 60 minutes at YYZ
You were already right by the time you got this far - AC can barely turn a narrowbody in 60 minutes if it's flying YYZ-YOW-YYZ in April sunshine, with no towing involved. In a lot of cases it's not a LOT more than that.
That said, I've lost track of the number of flights I've been on that pushed back 15 minutes late and still landed on time. I don't know what they see as the virtue of that kind of scheduling.
Originally Posted by
Symmetre
AC could have a sufficient number of rampies so we don't have to sit on the tarmac for 15 minutes waiting to be marshalled to the gate. It happens too often, and is particularly galling when the flight actually did land on time. Were they just not expecting that to happen? Bottom line is that also impacts OTP, and is easy enough to address.
The challenge here is that having enough staff on hand when things get bunched up, requires having MORE staff than you need for most of the time. I think you're right that this would make a difference, but I think many of us here from many different industries recognize the kind of management culture that absolutely panics when it sees any workers being paid to sit around and wait. I'll be honest, I don't see this one improving at all, ever.
Originally Posted by
Sopwith
No one here is expecting perfection. Everyone here recognizes that weather happens, and that some regions have different weather than others.
I just spent (wasted?) time in this very thread, going back and forth with a couple of people who literally rejected the impact of weather on airline operations.
Originally Posted by
Sopwith
I have spent a career dealing with quality management in the construction industry. What I have observed is that the entities who are responsible for managing the quality of their own work almost always do it in a reactionary mode. [...]The culture compels them to wait until stuff happens and then go into recovery mode.
Where I work, it's outdoor concerts that map to this. We are responsible for the safety of our patrons, and I spend half my summer on the phone with our meteorology team, trying to figure out whether that approaching thunderstorm is going to hit us directly - requiring a show stop and a venue evacuation - or if we can keep the show going safely. Far more often than not, a storm that poses a potential threat when it's three hours out will end up missing us by fifty miles.
I imagine IRROPS planning runs a lot like this; for every schedule-wrecking direct hit, there are several near-misses that end up simply producing turbulence on the climb out. Again, the only proactive solution for this is to artificially pad the schedule, overstaff the ramp, etc, and each item on that list carries a price tag. That's not to suggest I think AC's necessarily choosing correctly there, only that it's not hard to spot their thought process.
Originally Posted by
Sopwith
Recognize that there is room for improvement and commit to it. Set some demanding but realistic KPIs for the line managers: e.g. achieve OTP in the upper quartile within 12 months. Then give them the authority, responsibility, resources and budget to do it, with a healthy bonus once it's achieved, and annually as long as it's maintained. Have some pride in the performance.
Everything we've seen from AC on this suggests that they view it as a Small Problem, that affects (to them) an acceptable percentage of flights, by an acceptable amount of delay, an acceptable percentage of the time. I think you're right that changing this would take enormous systemic revision.
Originally Posted by
Sopwith
Look at the systems for prediction and recovery of IRROPS. Again, there is obvious room for improvement. Give the operations people the responsibility and authority to plan for and be better prepared for potential IRROPS.
Do we know this doesn't already happen? I'm not pushing back, I'm really asking. This is the kind of thing I'd put on an "if you couldn't do what you do for a living, what else would you do for a living" questionnaire.
Originally Posted by
Sopwith
The biggest problem is the complacency and tolerance that comes out of the C suite. "We're not happy until you're not happy."
From the things that I've read, I really do get the sense that the C-suite really does view this as "our stats say this happens an acceptable percentage of the time, and people say they're furious but then book three more tickets, and changing it would cost money, and for every customer pissed off about a delay, we've got five more telling us to find a way to make the tickets cheaper".
That last bit's not even about IRROPS - airline leaders worldwide have told us consistently for decades that this is why seat pitch sucks, and food sucks; customers consistently identify "make it cheaper" as their far-and-away top priority. Again, I don't agree with the choices this produces, but I don't find them difficult to identify.
Originally Posted by
acrooksie
It was obvious to me in advance that it was going to happen, but since flight wasn’t IRROPS “yet” there was nothing I could do in the eyes of the call center. Every minute that ticks by eliminates another alternate flight as an option. I wish AC would focus their attention here - in a world where you know there will be IRROPS as part of doing business, please make it easy for your customers to manage it.
I've been finding a varying mix of this, and then also "what do you mean you've already cancelled my 8PM flight? It's not even noon!" as I encountered during the December blizzard.
Originally Posted by
hirohito888
I think if AC consistently chooses to have abysmal OTP and chooses not to fix it, for many, the issue is that AC is also not providing a standard of customer service and assistance for the passengers to minimize the impact of their poor OTP.
If nothing else, just adequately staff the furshligginer call center, and build a surge capacity for IRROPS.
Thanks all, I appreciate the discussion!