Originally Posted by
Ben Lipsey
You can ignore most of the odd specificities of the survey. For example there will never be any scenario where AF earns XP and KL doesn't. The intro of 0 XP long haul J fares also seems like a pie-in-the-sky idea and would undoubtedly receive extreme resistance both internally and externally. (I wasn't involved in this survey, but to me it's just trying to calibrate customer reaction to a variety of different factors, all else being equal.)
But my point stands regarding the principle of differentiating XP per fare brand, and finding ways to encourage our elite members to still find a reason/value in buying up from the lowest fare offered. Put simply - basic Y fares in Europe are meant to offer a product that competes with FR, U2, etc. The 0 XP is essentially us saying to our elite members, We don't want you buying this, but we won't 'punish' you if you do so (by preventing elite benefits from applying to this fare - like you see with some of our legacy competitors). Because of course, that's the other possibility: we can simply say, fine, you earn XP on these cheap Basic fares, but elite benefits don't apply. (This is more of the model you see from US carriers. )
Oké so finally caught up with everything. Firstly; Thank you Ben for engaging & calming the nerves about less/no XP for KL & J.
I fully understand differeniating XP level, and agree with
sehgalanuj that e.g. offering more for Flex makes perfect sense.
This is also what we see with IAG/LHG. I also notice when flying them that I am sensitive to this, especially LHG's green fare.
I also buy SAF for most of my flights, but as I have sufficient XP, I tend to do so via the +1 I am flying with for they'll earn the extra XP (often a family member) as I am too far from Ulti regardless.
In terms of bundeling, a big reason to buy e.g. higher segment economy tickets etc are fast track for non-status (as I see with economy flex and is a reason to buy economy flex for non-status +1s).
Fast track passport control at AMS/CDG/inbound, comparable to CDG's ulti track, would also be huuuugely interesting. Would be a reason for me to buy a higher segment business class ticket.
I notice as well that the environment to buy extras, such as fast track, lounge access etc. Is something I do not really encounter as clearly as for example with LCCs/AY.
As for AFKL, I am someone who, intra-EU, mostly buys economy tickets and sometimes upgrades at OLCI. Longhaul always J.
The type of ticket in economy I buy is largely dependent on flexibility & price. Depending on how certain I am, I'll go for somewhere between Light and Flex.
While less common, I have had multiple occasions like
sehgalanuj where me buying a light ticket led to me buying another AFKL tickets, rather than cancelling and booking with a competitor.
E.g. Already had AMS-MAD, but ended up needing to go from HEL-MAD. AY direct was cheaper, but as I had my light ticket it made more sense to do HEL-AMS-MAD.
However, on my most dominant routes (AMS-MAD, AMS-ZRH), KLM is consistently simply outcompeted.
For Zurich, this is mainly due to scheduling times especially ZRH-AMS being a bit too early. Buying KL AMS-ZRH only is way more/too expensive.
For MAD, I happen to need an upcoming one way business flight as I need to get heavy luggage for 2 to MAD for an upcoming trip (long haul J MAD-AMS-XXX, XXX-CDG-AMS with KL/AF).
Here, UX made most sense because it was cheaper, better food and ST (luggage). Also has the 787 but let's disregard that.
UX and Iberia both have stronger business products, especially in terms of food.
Both also tend to be (much) cheaper when buying one-ways.
Point 1; When you want to compete with LCCs, the price of one way fares or differentiating fare classes between people/flights is quite a big thing.
Fully understanding the point of incentivising return flights, but "normal" priced one way tickets is also a factor.
Now, when I need an AFKL one way, I usually end up buying on points as that is more competitive.
Point 2; 0 XP on a fare would only make me angry and gives even less incentive to fly AFKL unless they are genuinely cheaper than LCCs and I do get XPs at competitiors. Differentiating logically(!) does make sense, and might even work in my favour.
So Transavia doesn't earn more than AFKL, AF/KL don't earn differently and there is a progression from Eco light to Business Flex.
Point 3; The incentive to buy intra-europe J (aka a higher earning fare) on AFKL out right is simply not there for me at the moment. And to me that is largely tied to the quality of the food.
Even the star alliance lounge at AMS has better food than KL. I appreciate and see that changes are being made, but it is honestly still very bad.
In terms of cost, I can't imagine how much food is being wasted due to the quality, especially the wandersboxes. At this stage, I would rather have the option to not have them load a wandersbox for me. Should also help a bit with cost.
A pre-select meal option, with which you can actually SEE the type meal would probably go a long way and make the offering more competitive again. AY, LX, etc can do it, also ex ams.
Also; really hoping it's not true that unused boxes are also thrown out as was mentioned by someone a while back.
Point 4; In terms of incentivising higher earning fares in economy, to me at least the ticket conditions in terms of flexibility/conditions is the most important. PfL does not care about 0 XP unless they're going for Ulti either way.
If my benefits aren't honoured on certain ticket types, I agree there might be a slight revolution.
Lastly; I know this might be a bit more niche, but my partner is now plat+1 via AMEX.
At the moment, we have 0 incentive for them to earn XP. However, if it could be confirmed that when a +1 partner also earns over 300 XP per qualifying year, that that year then counts towards PfL, we would adjust our travel plans accordingly.
As they're deep in the OW/*A ecosystem (with MAD/ZRH as hubs), they usually fly on my points, with me, or AFKL when they are genuinely outcompeting IB/LX/EasyJet. Otherwise, the irrational loyalty behaviour pulls them/us towards those carriers.
Why would we care about qualifying years as a +1? Well, to give the +1 to children/elderly parents and in this day and age, one never knows what benefits remain.
I grew up in an AF/KL heavy household with quite a few PfLs, close to airports. FB consistently being ranked one of the best loyalty programmes is not surprising to me, and I hope that reputations remain, or in some aspects becomes, high.
Am also highly aware of the politics surrounding AMS especially, must be quite difficult to navigate. Happy to see the investment in SK and hopefully TAP.