Originally Posted by
Ditto
Generally speaking, if the initial delay was due to "extraordinary circumstances" then what follows doesn't matter, but it's not clear from your message whether there were ATC delays in Paris or this is what they consider not flying over Pakistan?
I did quite a bit of reading on this topic, and the established case law is that even if the original delay was due to extraordinary circumstances, the follow on does matter. But, what happens is that the amount of delay caused by the extraordinary circumstances should be subtracted. If the leftover is still over the threshold, then compensation remains due.
As for this case, there were zero ATC delays in Paris. The sequence of events were:
- Original arrival was scheduled for 22:50.
- Two days before departure AF extended the flying time by 1hr, making the arrival 23:50, because as per their phone call to me they were going to fly a longer route due to not flying over Pakistani airspace.
- On the day of departure, due to operational constraints (which is all the information they provide now), the flight departure was delayed by 1hr, making the expected arrival 00:50. The captain and ground crew said it was due to an aircraft change.
- After we boarded, the flight got delayed by another about an hour. In fact, the doors had to be reopened to bring technicians on board due to instrumentation issues.
They consider the original 1hr delay, i.e. avoiding Pakistan airspace, extraordinary. Everything else, in their admission, is not.
Originally Posted by
Ditto
The initial delay at departure (as per FR24) was 2h36, arrival was actually only 2h53 late (although until doors open I suppose could have been just over 3h late), not sure if they agree on the length of the delay?
They agree on the length of the delay. This is their official delay confirmation:
Flight number: AF0226
Scheduled departure date: 03 May 2025
Scheduled departure time: 10h50
Scheduled arrival time: 03 May 2025 23h50
Departing from: Paris-Paris-Charles de Gaulle airport (CDG) France
Arriving at: Delhi-Indira Gandhi International (DEL) India
Actual departure time: 03 May 2025 13h09
Actual arrival time: 04 May 2025 01h52
I know it says scheduled arrival of 23:50, but that is what was already changed from 22:50 two days before departure. I know that for EC261 case law, the original scheduled time matters, because they don't want to incentivize the airline just making small changes closer to departure date. So, original scheduled arrival was 22:50, and actual is 01:52, i.e. 3 hrs 2 mins delayed.
Also, yes, I come across as not too kind (keeping it PG for the Internet audience
) for trying to pursue an EC261 compensation for something just 2 mins above the threshold. But, I also ask, would they be willing to compensate me if we arrived just 2 mins under threshold?
Originally Posted by
Ditto
Especially given that they have stopped flying over Pakistan few days before I would indeed find it unlikely to hold in court that it was really "extraordinary circumstances" if the initial delay revolve around the loner flight path leading to crew timeout.
Correct, they stopped flying over Pakistan from April 29th onwards. On May 7th there was a Pakistani NOTAM that closed airspace in general, but that is 4 days after my flight, and over a week after they started avoiding the airspace in question. The first DGAC NOTAM that I could find that would have stopped them from flying in that airspace came on May 22nd. But even this one is advisory in nature, and not a restriction.