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Old Feb 19, 2020 | 11:45 am
  #62  
Dr.Dre
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Programs: NA
Posts: 18
Dear Neighbours thank You for Your participation and advice. So many answers/suggestions! Apparently I can post just 5 posts in 24h (?newly registered), so sorry if disappear for another 24h. But feel free, if You are still curios - send me private messages.

Some of You (purch, Nick Art) well spotted our point regarding freedom of movement of EU members and non-EU family members. Important to understand that this law is treating EU family as one unit but not as a citizen with ROU passport or Non- citizen with a Russian passport (see DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC).

Most of what you suggested in your comments we have discussed between us. We consulted EU official documents/laws. Here what we found:

The DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC which clearly says, that: 5. The right of all Union citizens to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States should, if it is to be exercised under objective conditions of freedom and dignity, be also granted to their family members, irrespective of nationality. (I don't see any mentioning about visa).

Another point is number (6) same directive In order to maintain the unity of the family in a broader sense and without prejudice to the prohibition of discrimination on grounds of nationality, the situation of those persons who are not included in the definition of family members under this Directive, and who therefore do not enjoy an automatic right of entry and residence in the host Member State, should be examined by the host Member State on the basis of its own national legislation, in order to decide whether entry and residence could be granted to such persons, taking into consideration their relationship with the Union citizen or any other circumstances, such as their financial or physical dependence on the Union citizen.

I know it says about non-family members by definition. But what about maintaining the unity of the family of the EU citizens? What are Your thoughts? Our understanding is that our family was split because of LH. Practically we had a choice to apply for UK visa in Moldova (up to 6 months waiting time, not sure would it be rejected at the end), apply for family card outside the EU (again up to 6 months waiting formally) or to fly next day and to speak to UK BC.

BTW in this point (6) is the answer to those who suggested to marry Russian or Thai girls/boys and to bring them as non-EU family members - You will have problems at EU border to prove that you are a real family. Where is in our case he is our dependent infant.

In the response to a 2014 FOI request, Home office provided information about the ‘EEA Dependant’ ink stamp they issue in such circumstances:
If a non-EEA national arrives at the UK border seeking admission under the EEA Regulations as the family member of an EEA national, or of a British citizen under the Surinder Singh judgment, and does not have a valid EEA family permit (or other document specified in regulation 11(2)), the Border Force officer will give the passenger the opportunity to prove by other means that they qualify for entry (as required by Article 5(4) of the Directive and regulation 11(4) of the EEA Regulations).
If the officer is satisfied that the passenger is eligible for admission, the passenger’s valid passport will be endorsed at the border using an ‘EEA Dependant’ ink stamp for a period of six months. This stamp has replaced the ‘code 1A’ stamp previously used for this purpose.

letter from Damien Green (Minister of Immigration in Britian) makes this clear:
Under Regulation 11, the family member of an EEA national must be admitted to the UK if he or she produces on arrival a valid passport and an EEA family permit, a UK issued residence card or permanent residence card, or if he or she is able to prove the family relationship by other means. [emphasis added]
It is therefore not compulsory for family members of EEA nationals to obtain an EEA family permit before traveling to the UK, and UK Border Agency officers will consider any evidence presented by passengers arriving at the UK border that they are entitled to be admitted as a family member of an EEA national in accordance with regulation 11 (4) [Ed: This is the paragraph which implements MRAX]. Nevertheless, it is strongly recommended that family members obtain an EEA Family Permit, which are issued free of charge, before travelling in order to facilitate their entry to the UK.

Lastly (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...y/index_en.htm)

Arriving at the border without an entry visa

It is always best for your non-EU family members to be well-informed in advance and to have all the necessary documents before starting their journey.

However, if they arrive at the border with their passport but without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by other means that they are family members of a mobile EU citizen. They can do so by providing proof of their identity and family ties with an EU citizen (for example a marriage or birth certificate) and, proof that they are joining or accompanying the EU citizen (for example, proof that the EU citizen is already living in the country where entry is sought). If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot
So to our understanding: Non-EU dependand child of EU family has the same right regarding freedom of movement as his/her parents.

Im not sure why You still disagree with obvious conclusion

But let's come back to my initial question.
Some clarifications I missed to explain previously:
1. I just received SOP letter, so I don't know if LH will agree to pay anything.
2. If LH can ignore SOP why they replyed to SOP requests and provided their comments? Make no sense to me. But, indeed big disappointment from warakorn negative experience with SOP.
3. My son (was 7-month-old at the time of LH event) already has ROU citizenship, but at that moment back in March 2019 he had no ROU documents, just RU (again - Brexit and the indeed bizarre decision of ROU embassy - to legalize our marriage in Russia, but its a different talk, not related to my question with LH).
4. The decision to go abroad was not spontaneous. Before leaving the UK I spend dozens of hours on the internet/Home Office web site and over the phone with the Home Office (You know - listen carefully and choose one of the following 27 options). Believe me or not - I had one option just to wait up to 6 months for Family card, but bear mind Brexit on 29 March 2019. Sincerely I very was anxious as UK Government did not care much at that time for EU citizens and their families. As an example, I have attached an email from the Home Office.



My letter to Home Office
Reply from Home Office


Originally Posted by warakorn
Again, I have little to no sympathy for the parents here.
Who in his right mind is travelling with a seven-month old baby from the UK to Moldova without a proper Passport, which guarantees easy re-entry in the UK?
Moreover, Moldova is not known for a functioning healthcare system.
We were born and grew up in this country, I see nothing wrong to travel home. We are not only parents who travel with infants. But indeed this time it went wrong.
BTW - why You are considering Russian passport as not proper? In the end, my son entered the UK via this Passport.

Originally Posted by warakorn
Sorry, again!
Your story makes no sense to me. E-Mail can be faked so easily.
Tell us the trick, I know many people in Lagos who would love to know more about an UK Entry Clearance in form an email.
When I presented at Manchester I had no my son's passport, just my documents (Rou passport, my pre-settled status they checked online, my work contract), and photos of all documents of Youngest one. At that time I did not have email between LH and UK BC, so it was direct communication between them, I was not included, one of the LH members kindly printed it later.
I cant post full email here (it says - the confidential information), just fragment



I have attached what UK Border Force stamped in his Russian Passport when they finally arrived. I hope the picture is big enough to be seen, doesn't look to me as a visa. So all of You who said that visa is obligatory - here is the prove - you were wrong.

Stamp in Russian passport

Dear warakorn - Your main arguments that if EU carrier/agents may not know all EU laws it makes him not liable and second according to You TIMATIC codecs is superior to EU law for EU Commercial company (for EU travels). I'm not an expert in law but I see a contradiction. In short - if don't know the law you are not liable to the law (by warakorn)

I understand that LH Chisinau agents might not know all EU laws details, but they consulted numerous times with LH Germany, who advised them to refuse the boarding. We presented all documents and more than that all EU official web sites and documents supporting our case (that is why LH Chisinau spent a lot of time over the phone with LH Germany, it wasn't straight forward refusal as LH Chisinau could see our evidence).

Another moment - LH informed söp that "complainants being rerouted free of charge", but we paid twice additional >500 GPB for re-routing and secondly after UK BC and authorized entry why we shall ignore another 5 hours stopover in Frankfurt?

Im coming back to my first post (I have excluded violation of freedom of movement) - with all said regarding to the EU law
No 261/2004, is it realistic to claim our money back from tickets and re-booking fees (as the delay was longer than 5 hours)? It looks like emotional stress according to this forum I can blame myself.

Did anyone witness similar claims or I can make a precedent?

BIG Thanks!



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