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Old Dec 17, 2019 | 4:32 pm
  #2823  
spin88
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Newman55
Why would Boeing invest $25 billion dollars on a new aircraft that wouldn’t be optimized for growth?

The 797 is designed to be between the a321 and the 787 where the 737 is not as economic. The 737 continues to be a great plane for the airlines in the 150 seat range. What you are suggesting is that they invest $50 billion on two new models. Meanwhile, giving their competitor all new plane orders for 10 years in a very lucrative market.
I have zero idea where these figures came from. The c-series cost $6.1B to develop. A new narrow body by Boeing would cost more (as it would be designed for a broader range of sizes, probably three), but some of the technology already exists. Usual estimates are $10-15B max. Boeing has now spent more than $15B for the MAX so far.

The 797 is a concept that got wiped out by the a321neoLR and XLR. Had Boeing launched it earlier, perhaps a market of 1000-2000 planes, but the bottom half of that market has gone away with the a321neo. see https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2...pose-to-boeing (paywall). The remaining demand can be filled with 787 or 333s.

And I might add the MAX was NOT designed to be a permanent offering. The original plans were for Boeing to launch its' Y1 project (100-250 seat) project in 2020. That was put off by the MAX till 2030. But the big market (over 50% of Boeing's sales) is the narrow-body market.

Originally Posted by st3
The neo is also a "rush" solution. It is by no means a clean-sheet design and, like the MAX, a stopgap solution with more efficient engines until they can design a new single-aisle plane.
No. TheA320 is a 1980s design (vs a 1960s design for the 737). Because it (a) sits higher, (b) has much more modern architecture and systems, and (c) is only at a single stretch with the A321 (vs. 4 with the MAX10) it was easy to update the engines. Airbus had the luxury of re-engining the plane relatively easily, and more importantly, was able to stretch the design to a much longer range with the A321neoXLR. Boeing was not able to do either of these things.

Had Boeing gone with a new narrowbody in 2011, Airbus might have elected to stick with the A320 series for another ten year, then build a new plane. Boeing was forced into it's choice by Airbus and then delaying making a decision.

I am sure that if you polled Boeing executives and workers today, 99.9% would say they wished Boeing would have launched a new narrow body in 2011 as originally planned.



Originally Posted by mduell
Too heavy to be competitive with anything in the A320neo lineup..
+1. Too much plane combined with too many heavy systems. The 757 burns more than 25% more fuel per seat than the A321neoLR does No way that new engines can fill that big of a gap.
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