Originally Posted by
Beltway2A
I'll echo those comments 100%. The DC property is great, and I when I stayed at the Seattle W on a Luxury Privs rate I thought both the hard and soft product were nice. Oddly, I've never seen a Courtyard participate in the luxury privileges program...
The broader point seems to focus on specific properties and cities instead of drawing broader generalizations about brands.
I never said that CY is an equivalent property to a W
Of course they don't participate in FHR. But ... I probably still spend 40 nights a year in CY/RI/FI because its the best property for miles. Many others do as well.
And ... I completely agree that the experience at a couple of city W's isn't appropriate to draw a broader generalization. However., I think the fact there is only one city W under development in the entire United States supports my view that the concept of attracting wealthy 30-60 y/o (Barry would agree that was the target market) isn't working in business centers.
Originally Posted by
bhrubin
The ADR rates shown a few posts before are reflective that W average rates are substantially higher than those of Courtyard; it isn’t even close. To be frank, W ADR are also much higher than those of JW. It’s hard to imagine the median income of such W guests being anything than higher.
I think a lot of people here aren’t part of the W target audience and don’t know what they’re taking about. W is a LUXURY brand, whether people want to recognize that fact or not. It may not suit the versions of luxury each of us may prefer, but that doesn’t change that it’s a luxury brand. The Atlanta property is known for being subpar...so I’m not surprised it isn’t impressing our OP. The Four Seasons Sydney is horrible, but I doubt that makes everyone think Four Seasons hotels everywhere are as poor. I think we know better. Prejudice is a dangerous thing.
Perhaps it is prudent to not slam an entire brand out of innuendo and prejudice.
RevPAR doesn't tell the whole story. And, of course, W's which are concentrated in large cities or expensive resorts will have higher RevPAR than brands which are more geographically diverse. But even in the same market, here are a couple of interesting datapoints that illustrate RevPAR isn't everything -- for example in Houston, the latest RevPAR reports shows the JW has a higer RevPAR than either the Fourt Seasons or the St. Regis (JW Marriott Downtown ($194.28, ranked 29th); Four Seasons Hotel ($183.89, ranked 40th); St. Regis ($182.39, ranked 42nd)
These Houston hotels check in among the most lucrative in Texas - CultureMap HoustonI strongly suspect you believe the Four Seasons and St.R. in Houston are more luxurious and attract a wealthier crowd than the JW. Yet, the JW has a higher RevPAR ... so it doesn't tell the whole story.
I agree with your descriptions of many of the W's but the fact is that in Atlanta, Chicago, New York, Hollywood, London, Miami, Scottsdale, -- almost all of which I've stayed at -- the W's are packed with people who wouldn't normally spend $250 a night on a hotel. The staff is used to dealing with folks who are packing a room with a bunch of friends and it leads to service problems. It also often means that the hotel amenities aren't available to hotel guests.
But, that's very different at the other locations you mention. I agree some hotels suffer from service and hard product problems. I think the W brand is shifting toward being a resort oriented brand because the city hotel isn't working economically -- which is why the W West LA (which I like) isn't jumping to invest money in the facility problems, and why they W's in NYC aren't investing either.