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Old Aug 14, 2004 | 8:25 pm
  #139  
Teacher49
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Originally Posted by FamIam
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell

Sleep tight America...
Don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back or anything.

As for the quote, Orwell never said anything like that. It is just another piece of disinformation floating around out there that you have accepted as fact. Truly disconcerting, I must say, for one who represents our "security apparatus" acting on solid "intel."

The closest thing Orwell said to that was in a discussion of what he though Kipling believed: "[Kipling] sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them."


Originally Posted by FamIam
I never said that I knew anything. I simply believe that there is often more to what goes on then the Gov sees fit to let us in on.
Glad to hear you say that you know that you don't know anything. Perhaps - just perhaps - there is not so very much to know. Since you favor George Orwell, give his book 1984 a read. A manual for our times.Our government has clearly shown itself to be gullible and also ready to twist, select or shamelessly inflate intelligence to suit its purposes. Just like any other government and more than some.


Originally Posted by FamIam
I hope I never have to find out how good of a shot I am in the environs of my workplace. That means that all bets are off...and a lot of people die.

I still can't understand the people on this site's animosity towards FAMs. I don't expect gratitude...maybe just less hostility.
Well, I'm with you there. I hope those on airplanes who are armed never do have to start shooting. It would not turn out well.

As to the hostility, I don't feel any in general towards FAMs. I sure do towards those who try to make us believe they are essential in such numbers or that they are beating back a real, present threat. I accept them the way I accept police at ballgames and in high schools: as a necessity and with gratitude but no great belief that they will be needed very often at all. And when people who carry guns and who are willing to infringe on my rights citing mysterious unspeakable knowledge start to loom so large in my everyday life, my concerns for democracy and my bullsh*t detectors both go into over drive.

As to having answers, as I think I clearly said, I don't think there are any. If someone wants to do mayhem, they will. If an organization of dozens let alone hundreds, let alone the the thousands we are led to believe are out there really were out there and capable -- we would have some unsuccessful tries and some successful tries. Either kind would be a success for a terrorist because either would sow more fear. As it stands, the awful single event of 9/11 was far more successful than the terrible results of that day: it has had us cowering in fear ever since. They have broken our spirit and our courage and inspired us to attack people not culpable just to make ourselves feel like we doing something.

Yes, put some FAMs in some seats. Unlike others, I don't care if they are 1st class or not. But the program should not be too big. Yes, screen bags, wand people. But don't pretend you are creating a "sterile" environment which must be evacuated when a little lapse is made. That is both stupid and crazy. It both creates a false sense of security inside the screened areas and contributes to a false sense of fear everywhere else.

Surely spread the bets around, but mostly get on with life.

Since you are new here and like quotes, here's one for you that I have posted before. It is from a blind and deaf person who fits my criteria for a person of courage more than any character played by a Bruce Willis type:

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. God himself is not secure, having given man dominion over His works! Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold. Faith alone defends. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces towards change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.
Helen Keller
If you are who you say your are, I do appreciate your willingness to put yourself in harm's way. Just don't expect me to buy the notion that there is as much danger for you or for me in the air as there is for the average firefighter, police man or resident of some our worse neighborhoods.

Best wishes,

Teacher49

Last edited by Teacher49; Aug 14, 2004 at 9:05 pm
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