Originally Posted by
audio-nut
They have had them since day 1. How do you think they get drinks on the planes? They only recently started using them in the aisle for drink service but they have always had carts.
I just contacted a TSA Transportation Security Inspector (TSI). The TSI just badged onto a JetBlue Airways A320 and verified that there were no drink-carts on it.
Originally Posted by
cestmoi123
So, the most you can come up with is two cases where we don't KNOW that it WASN'T someone rushing the cockpit. BTW, for MS804, there's very strong evidence it was a fire in the cockpit, so claiming that that flight MIGHT have been someone rushing the cockpit is doubtful, at best. That said, even if we assume that both of those flights were someone rushing the cockpit, that's two out of over 600 million flights. So, in the most generous possible interpretation, these barriers would reduce my risk of dying on a commercial flight by 0.0000003%. Not super-compelling.
No, there are 4 more unsolved mysteries; and 4 solved: TWA Flight 800, Air France Flight 447, Helios Airways Flight 522, and Egyptair Flights 990; and then the 4 on 9/11:
We cannot definitively prove there was or wasn't with limited technology and a video of every angle of what happened.
NOTE: The moderator has warned me about repeating responses, but I'm only responding to repeated questions.
Originally Posted by
JoeBas
No, this is like, Deja Vu, like, like I've been here before...
Agreed. I recommend that others read the closed threads on this. I'm politely replying to repeated questions in different formats for hopeful clarification.
Originally Posted by
awayIgo
I regularly fly ElAl. They have a double door. There is a waiting space between the 2 doors. I guess that’s a secondary barrier. All i know is that when the door is open to allow the FA to being something in, all you see is another locked door. That door isn’t opened until the first is closed. They also have a private lav and rest area. The flight crew doesnt come out while the plane is in the air.
This has been the case for at least 16 years. Thank you for your input!
April 4, 2003 CBS News article about the pilots union ALPA complaining about the lack of cockpit secondary barriers:
Israel's national airline, El Al, has among the most stringent security requirements. All its planes have double doors separated by a narrow hallway, said Offer Einav, former security director for the airline. Pilots must close one door before opening the other, he said.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bulletp...ors-a-reality/
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
Can you show any time FAM made a difference, or the unopenable doors prevented another attack?
Many agree with you including the U.S. Department of Inspector General / Office of Inspector General--from 2 weeks ago on CNN News:
The inspector general said [on December 17, 2018] it "identified $394 million in funds that could be put to better use." The most up-to-date budget documents from the department show the budget for the Federal Air Marshal Service, or FAMS, is about $803 million.
[ ... ]
After its first report in November 2017, the then-inspector general, John Roth, told Congress that air marshal funding "gets wasted basically fighting the last war."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/12/polit...-ig/index.html
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
All I can think of is the Germanwings flight where the door basically caused the crash.
There would be almost nothing to stop a suicidal/homicidal pilot at the controls of an aircraft. A flight attendant inside the cockpit would not have the time nor have known how to wrestle back the controls, and then unlock the cockpit door. Most, if not all, pilots can bypass most screening requirements and bring a weapon to incapacitate a fellow pilot or flight attendant inside the cockpit.
The "2-man rule" would do nothing to stop another Germanwings tragedy by a suicidal/homicidal pilot. Terribly, the fate of that flight was set as soon as its wheels went up...
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
Times have changed. Terrorists have moved on.
Vehicle ramming attacks still happen--a harder task that does not kill as many people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
People are also less passive now.
13 months
before 9/11, these passengers on Southwest Airlines were not "passive" and killed a cockpit intruder:
As many as eight of the 120 passengers on the Boeing 737 subdued the man, Jonathan Burton of Las Vegas, who was removed from the jet after it landed and taken to a Salt Lake City hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Federal investigators and prosecutors declined to provide details of the incident or the inquiry that followed, including the names of the other passengers involved in the incident.
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/21/u...th-on-jet.html
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
They are less likely to stand by scared of people with [one-inch blade] boxcutters
TSA allows scissors with blades under 4 inches from the pivot point.
Originally Posted by
s0ssos
Many people have lost trust in the government, with partisanship becoming more vicious and officials seemingly not caring what happens to the common person, as long as they "win" (whatever they means). And the government policing itself? I doubt any intelligent American believes that anymore.
I agree with some of this, but
Wikileaks violated U.S. laws. Until those laws are rescinded, they are still LAW and consequences for violating them.
I absolutely do not
"advocate a society in which the government is the sole keeper of peace and security" -- <deleted by moderator>.