But United (and the other legacy carriers) have to change the way they are doing business. The LCC competition is not saddled with these traditional pension plans. Now I'm not sure how you go about getting that through to the union bosses. I think most United employees feel that it's better to be employed without the traditional plan, than to not be employed at all. They can blame poor management, 9-11, soft economy, jetBlue, and anything else for the predicament of UAL, but the fact is that the company must change with the times in order to survive and (hopefully) prosper. The legacy carriers suffer from high labor costs, as the higher costs of providing "full" service. I think United needs to restructure it's domestic service with a simplified fare structure and aircraft commonality (see the other thread running in this forum about F class and TED) in order to compete. They make money internationally as far as I know, so things are OK there. The only way to do this is to lower costs. Period. Not that it all must come from employees, but labor costs are a significant factor that cannot be ignored. These are tough times requiring tough decisions. I really hope that management and employees will work together (as they have been doing) to restructure the company and make it viable. Of course, if US Airways goes away by the end of the year, then that will ease the overcapacity in the industry, and help all the remaining carriers. AA, DL, CO, NW and friends are naturally hoping that UA and US go away!