Thanks for the response. Maybe it's just me (and it's not you all), but I know that since 9/11 I can count on 1 hand (until recently) the times I've been pulled into 2ndary - and now it's every single time, even w/ shoes that worked before. So something changed. I still think the rivet stuff is stoo-pid. Yes, they're rivets - not bombs. We both know that - give me a break.