FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - FF programs and ethics - where to draw the line?
Old Jul 10, 2004 | 9:12 am
  #6  
gleff
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First, let me acknowledge that you did bring the thread to the attention of at least one MilesBuzz moderator (though I don't think I was that one), the concern was shared with me because it warranted some real thought, and I suppose reasonable people can differ on the judgment about leaving things open that may violate a program's terms and conditions.

Second, let me also say I respect your decision to bring this issue to Randy's attention, he is certainly entitled to take a different view from the moderators if he wishes and I for one will follow his lead.

I actually think this is a pretty good discussion, so I'll share some thoughts that are mine personally.

My own knowledge is a bit limited with respect to the terms and conditions that Walmart may have on their products, and how their own practices differ from their stated terms. With an airline program I'm pretty confident I know what is and is not within the bounds of acceptability, and my lack of expertise probably limits me and my willingness to intercede in a thread. I'd just assume let folks educate each other on the subject. I also think it's worth discussing whether Walmart enforces its Terms & Conditions or whether their actions differ substantially in practice from their words on a page. And that's a meaningful distinction, I think. Just as it's worth discussing "Can I sell my miles? What would be the consequences?" and that is materially different from a post soliciting the sale of miles in, say, Coupon Connection. Flyertalk isn't a forum for sale, but Flyertalk certainly is a place where you can discuss whether sale/barter/exchange is okay or not. And where it's possible to discuss what's in and outside of the bounds of a program's rule, whether those rules are enforced, etc.

In the case of this particular thread, I don't think the answer is to close it. I think the answer is for you (or anyone else) to say "this is actually against Walmart's policy in 48 states. Seems unfair to abuse the policy. You might even get an employee in trouble if they do what you ask. Crosses a line for me that I think shouldn't be crossed."

That would be a very reasonable post. But it doesn't seem outside the TOS of Flyertalk to have that discussion.

Going perhaps a bit too meta and beyond the scope of anything that would actually bear on a decision regarding any particular thread on Flyertalk (but that I still think is interesting), I believe that posts pushing the envelope on promotions and loopholes serve a very real economic purpose: by exploiting and exposing loopholes, companies are forced to get better. They're forced to think through promotions. They're forced to improve their computer programming. These are things that I fervently believe make commerce stronger. Now, that doesn't say anything about whether an individual action is justified in any given circumstance. That broad claim about the world likely says little about individual ethics. But Flyertalk broadly, by serving as a forum to expose poorly thought-through corporate practices makes those practices better. Some companies may not like that, after all THEY are the ones having a fire lit under themselves and bearing the cost. But I know I sleep just fine at night knowing what's posted here.

We all need to police our own actions and share our reasoning in order to persuade other Flyertalkers of our position and that will do more to clean up the ethics of miles and points than shutting down discussions. This is not an absolute statement, there are times when closing a thread seems appropriate, there may be a subjective element to it. But these are interesting enough ideas that I thought I'd share my own thinking in its inchoate form. But don't quote this against me when I act later as a moderator! There ARE some things considered verboten on Flyertalk, I'll try to act on those, notwithstanding the implications of some of my personal opinions here!

Best,
Gary
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