FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - DL's had enough of fake ESAs- let's hope WN is next!
Old Mar 29, 2018, 11:43 pm
  #143  
justhere
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
Originally Posted by kb9522
Your irrelevant wall of text aside, your travel companion - by your own admission - needs assistance. Nobody should not find it unreasonable or demeaning to have to wait until the plane is clear before personnel can come on to assist.
No one needs to come on to assist. I'm there to assist. How is that not clear to you? You even said "your travel companion". Obviously, by definition, I'm with them. The assistance they need is the wheelchair up and down the jetway. My assistance on board is for the most part just to be right there in case they stumble. They cannot, without a lot of difficulty walk more than a few steps. They don't need an aisle chair for two reasons. One, the more they get up and down, the more it hurts, and two, it simply takes longer to use the aisle chair than to walk a few steps.

To then tell them, when they are literally 10 feet from the door, and can get from their seat to the door and out to the wheelchair, that they must sit there even though no one is walking past them, is extremely demeaning They know they can get up, walk the 10 steps and get to the wheelchair without holding people up but your solution is that they must sit there and wait and be the last person off the plane for no other reason than they used a wheelchair to get up and down the jetway. If that's not clear enough for you consider this. There is a break in the passenger stream (again because there are people who able bodied but clueless and hold up the line while getting their bag, etc) so we get up to go. FA says "sorry you need to remain seated".
"Why?"
"Because you use a wheelchair to get up and down the jetway so just sit there and don't slow down the rest of the passengers."
We look around to the empty aisle and the passengers half way back on the plane and say to the FA "but we aren't holding anyone up".
FA says "sorry but you preboarded so now you have to wait".
"So even though we can get off without holding anyone up, we have to sit here as 'punishment' for preboarding?"
"No it's not punishment."
"Oh, so you are just treating us differently because of this person's disability?"
"Yes. Wait, no. No, we don't discriminate or treat people differently."
"So we can get off the plane?"
"No. Wait, yes. Er, no." "Sir please just accept that you have to sit there and wait for no good reason."

Nothing like taking away someone's dignity by treating them like an outcast. So there's that.
Originally Posted by kb9522
How on earth is it even remotely demeaning? They have already admitted they need assistance, the timing of the arrival of that assistance is absolutely irrelevant.
I don't think I said anything about the arrival of any assistance so not sure where you are going with that.
Originally Posted by kb9522
More insults... does it make you feel better?
No, not really. But does it make you feel good to treat people with disabilities like they are an inconvenience?
Originally Posted by kb9522
If you are saying the passenger needs assistance, then preboarding is fine. And sure, you can sit in the front in that case. But somehow this same passenger magically does not need assistance to deplane... that's where it breaks down. If the passenger does not require assistance, they should board normally. If you NEED a seat in the front and do not need assistance to board, then open seating doesn't make sense... It makes far more sense in such cases to pay for a seat in the front on a carrier with reserved seating.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it and how many more times I can say that they need a wheelchair up and down the jetway before you'll understand the situation. I never said they don't need assistance to deplane. I said they can walk the ~10 steps to the door of the plane. They may hold on to seats on both sides of the aisle and then my arm or hand as they navigate the galley area and out the door to the wheelchair, or they may not depending on how they are doing. If that's your definition of not needing assistance to deplane then If they didn't preboard and had to sit further back on the plane, they would still need a wheelchair down the jetway and an aisle chair. WN is going to want to preboard us whether we wanted to or not. So the easiest thing for both WN and us, and the other passengers to help speed things up, is the wheelchair down the jetway, ~10 steps to a seat, and out of everyone's way. And because of that your solution is to make us wait for no good reason to deplane.
Originally Posted by kb9522
It's not demeaning or taking away their dignity. It's a statement of fact that passengers who require assistance to deplane will inconvenience others if everyone else has to wait to deplane so that personnel can board to assist first.
Where in my little discourse did I say that personnel have to board to assist us? I specifically said that different people have different needs depending on their disability. That, and that alone, should determine the best time for the person to deplane. My whole point was that your blanket statement is demeaning because it just takes a whole group of people and brushes them aside based on nothing other than an arbitrary thought. That is demeaning to those people.

And you really proved my point for me in your last sentence. I'm traveling with a passenger who requires assistance to get up the jetway but no one else has to wait because personnel aren't boarding to assist, so, according to you, we are not inconveniencing others. But that contradicts your position that if you preboard you must wait until everyone else is off because it inconveniences all the fit folks.
Originally Posted by kb9522
Or in other words they do not need assistance or preboarding. They need a seat in the front. The rest of us pay for that privilege.
You and others can continue the insults all you want, it doesn't make you correct.
WN makes us preboard whether we want to or not because of the need for the wheelchair down the jetway. And they do not let me push the chair down the jetway. So I have no choice but to use their assistance. So even if the law didn't support preboarding on an open seating airline, WN would likely preboard us anyway. And I don't consider it a privilege or feel lucky that we get a seat near the front. It's a constant reminder of the curve ball that life can throw at people.

It's a statement of fact that if you know nothing of a subject, you are ignorant of it. That's not an insult, it's just what it is, and like I said, clearly you are ignorant of what it means to be disabled and consequently you are demeaning those that are disabled by suggesting that they be treated as an "inconvenience".

Oh, and for the record, the FA knows that we need a wheelchair up the jetway. They have that info. They always tell us if the wheelchair hasn't arrived yet and if it hasn't we have no problem sitting and waiting as we can't go anywhere anyway. But to sit and wait when the chair is there and no one is close to us in the aisle just because you think that some arbitrary rule is the way to go just makes no sense.

Last edited by justhere; Mar 29, 2018 at 11:49 pm
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