Originally Posted by
GUWonder
He remained a ticketed passenger even while and after being forcibly removed by the government enforcers acting as UA agents in this Sunday incident at ORD.
VDB isn't applicable unless and until the the terms of the VDB are voluntarily accepted in full by the person who was seeking to volunteer to be offloaded from the originally booked and ticketed flights.
I'm talking about the status of the record in the system. My bet is, he volunteered, the GA went and pulled him off the flight in the system, came back with his new itinerary, he didn't like it and changed his mind, and then, instead of trying to then put the passenger back on the flight in the system and then rebook someone else, the GA just made him one of the IDBs.
Originally Posted by
desi
I think you are confusing private property and public carrier with legally paid passage rights.
I think you are conflating an entity with it's property.
You are also assuming incorrectly that one is criminal for not obeying illegal instructions from LEO.
The property owner asked you to leave, and now we're asking you to leave, is a legal instruction.
Again, a ticket holder on public carrier is not same as being on someone's private property.
Anyway, I still think you are just trolling for fun.
For the purposes of, "Will you be removed by force if you are asked to leave and do not", yes, it is.
Do you really think if there was even iota of ground for UA to cling to, lawyers for UA would have allowed Munoz to accept liability so openly on public television?
Yes. It's not worth the bad PR to just not pay the guy.
Originally Posted by
Summa Cum Laude Touro Law Center
Raehl, I would urge you to consider the possibility that the the legality of the passenger's continued presence on the plane is a little more complicated than you appreciate. A license permitting a person to be present on another's property that is paired with valuable considerations generally (rather than generally, I should say in several jurissictions) is not terminable at will, assuming full compliance with the conditions of the license, unless the terms of license provide it is terminable at will.
I'm not saying it's always legal for someone to ask for someone to be removed from their property... but if they ask for someone to be removed from their property, and that person says no, and then they bring in law enforcement to remove them from the property, absent some extremely convincing evidence on the part of the person being asked to leave, law enforcement is going to ask that person to leave the property, and if that person does not leave, they will be removed by force.
If there is disagreement as to the legality of the request, that is figured out later.
To use the extreme case, if I ask the cops to remove that black guy from my restaurant, they are going to ask him to leave, and if he doesn't, they are going to force him to leave, and later he can sue my [edited per Rule 16]. But he doesn't get to hang around in the meantime while we figure out if my request is legal or not.
Originally Posted by
TBonz
Which is why I said "Almost nowhere else" because I'm aware that hotels do it.
I'm not buying the cheaper fares argument; I'd need to see hard proof (from a disinterested third-party source that evaluates statistics; not from an airline with a vested interest in keeping it).
Strictly from a passenger viewpoint, overbooking is horrible.
No it isn't. Overbooking is why you can miss your flight and fly standby on the next one. If airlines were flying empty seats everytime someone no-showed, they would absolutely be charging you for it.
Again, your personnel problems, airlines, should not be my problem as a customer. If I pay money for a service, I expect that service. In the case of an airline, the *only* exceptions to that rule would be: weather-related, health emergency of the captain/co-pilot, or mechanical issues.
Unfortunately, no airline sells the service you are talking about. The only service airlines sell is transportation from A to B, with a refund if they fail to deliver. You can WANT the service you purchase to be different, but it isn't.
If you pay for something and it hasn't been given to you yet (absent a specific contract to the contrary) the only thing the other party is obligated to do if they fail to give it to you is give your money back.
So no, you have never paid for the service of getting from point A to point B on a specific flight.