correct me if i am wrong, but i think that kiwi had some problems last year around the holiday. they stranded passengers and shut down ops so that they could work out something in court. I believe that they are public. You know, i am really bewildered as to why anyone would want to start up an airline anyway. the costs seem staggering and the potential for loss seems extremely likely. Let's take pan am for instance. great idea, great name, problems for everyone. Martin shugrue was an airline exec who said himself, that pan am would have the lowest costs of any airline out there. well, what happened? he not only took down pan am, but carnival as well. so, why do these people continue to try? is AirTran next?