FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - Consolidated "Michelin Restaurants" thread
Old Dec 8, 2015 | 3:09 pm
  #157  
CGRA
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Originally Posted by bhrubin
Michelin includes restaurants in France, especially, and throughout all of (Western) Europe that are not in the big cities; outside of Europe, Michelin rarely includes restaurants not located in the big cities. Your data is correct, but I would argue the conclusion you draw is therefore seriously flawed.

About 494 of the 516 Michelin restaurants in Japan are located in the big cities of Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and Hiroshima. About 98 of the 595 Michelin restaurants in France are located in the city of Paris and smaller "cities" of Lyon and Marseilles. (Even counting Lyon and Marseilles as big cities here seems laughable, but I'm including them to make my point even more obvious.)

The fact is that Michelin includes small town/village and resort location restaurants in France and in Europe as a whole--but does not do that in North America or Asia to even a remotely comparable degree. The only big exception might be the Napa Valley!

The net effect is that Michelin ignores whole regions of "countries" like the USA, Japan, etc. while including whole regions and small towns of France and most European countries. That pretty much makes it fairly easy to conclude that Michelin over-represents France and Europe. It also ignores whole continents like South America and Africa despite the obvious gourmet dining presence in both, which is an even greater reason to question Michelin when discussing the "best" restaurants in the world.

I used your source, by the way.

source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ed_restaurants



I would clarify to say the Michelin guide is exhaustive in France and rarely outside. Again, Michelin over-represents France and, to a lesser but still significant degree, all of Europe. The numbers speak for themselves...especially when you critically examine the numbers.

If Michelin ever fairly considered US cities like Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston, Miami, Boston, Washington, Charleston, New Orleans, Seattle, etc, let alone the resort destinations like Carmel/Monterey, Santa Barbara, Hawaii, Las Vegas, etc, the USA likely would crush France and perhaps all of Europe.

If Michelin ever fairly considered countries like Mexico, Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Thailand, Indonesia, Canada, etc, the rest of the world might very well crush Europe--or at least make far more people aware that Europe isn't quite the center of the culinary universe as it pretends and craves to be.

Michelin includes off-the-beaten but tremendous restaurant locations like Rubano and San Sebastian and Modena, but somehow misses Lima, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Sao Paolo, Medoza, Bogota, Bangkok, Singapore, Cape Town, Los Angeles, Houston, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Anchorage (just kidding!), etc. It isn't because Michelin can't find amazing restaurants.

Like I said, Michelin is to fine dining like France is to wine: not quite the epicenter that it always craves to be.
Originally Posted by bhrubin
I simply defend that which I know to be true based on my own dining around the world. I love French food/cooking, and I love the Michelin restaurants in Paris and around France. I also love the many non-Michelin restaurants in many other cities and countries outside the Michelin coverage. I don't believe Michelin 3 star always means the very best, though I concede there aren't many Michelin 3 stars that I didn't love. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of worthy Michelin 3 star restaurants in areas not rated by Michelin, let alone 1 and 2 star restaurants.



The reason Michelin stopped rating places like Los Angeles and Las Vegas had nothing to do with people in France. It has everything to do with the fact that people outside of France weren't buying the guides. The guide has a bias, and that bias was causing demand to be insufficient. That same bias is on display in this discussion IMO!



On this, I wholly disagree.

Our meals at Saison (San Francisco), Meadowood (Napa), Alinea (Chicago), Le Bernardin (NYC), Gordon Ramsay (London), Le Calandre (Rubano, Italy), and DiverXO (Madrid) were all comparably excellent to those we had at Guy Savoy, Le Meurice, and Pierre Gagnaire (Paris). French Laundry (Napa) we didn't enjoy as much due to its formality and pretension, but I doubt that would impair enjoyment from most 3 star Michelin diners. Daniel (NYC) we did think overrated, with disappointing wine service/pairing, and this year it lost its 3rd star. Lung King Heen (Hong Kong) was very good but not worthy of 3 stars IMO, based on service and creativity issues. Alain Ducasse (Paris) was disappointing to us as a 3 star in the 2000s, and it lost its 3rd star a few years after we dined there.

We will be dining at 3 star Benu and 2 star Atelier Crenn (San Francisco) next weekend, as well.

Amber (Hong Kong), Noma (Copenhagen), Geranium (Copenhagen), Cyrus (Sonoma, now closed), and Hostellerie de Plaisance (St. Emilion) are among the 2 star restaurants that we believed to be worthy of 3 stars.

There are many restaurants that would earn 2-3 Michelin stars that are not in areas covered by Michelin: Central and Astrid y Gaston (Lima, Peru), Pujol, Biko, and Quintonil (Mexico City), The Test Kitchen (Cape Town), The Tasting Room at Le Quartier Francais (Franschhoek), Mikla (Istanbul) chief among them. I've dined at all of those FWIW.



I'll assume that was sarcasm. I'm laughing...but not with you:

http://www.theworlds50best.com/
Le bernardin couple of weeks ago and it was as usual good. I'll probably gave him 1 to 2 stars as it's french and it's most of the times available without reservation so it was a good "fish snack" on my way...,
At least they serve their full menu at their lounge unlike the "mandarin tower" one where they require a jacket in the lounge as well (forgot the names....)

Amber yes they deserved their 2 stars despite the horrible manager (ex robuchon)

I'm impressed by the list of restaurants you have been to. You have been to some great places and some less great.

I confirmed san pellegrino is a water (there is a large thead concerning this water list)

Last edited by CGRA; Dec 8, 2015 at 3:19 pm
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