The chief reason I got NEXUS and GE with it is to avoid as much of this confrontational behavior from CBP and CBSA as possible. Even when I have to deal with them, they are far more polite and professional than even the most routine entries from before. I don't break the law and I lawfully travel a lot, so I shouldn't be subject to abusive questioning and behavior.
Originally Posted by
GUWonder
Answering some of the CBP questions -- on a written declaration and/or via a verbal declaration -- helps the CBP to skip over hassling some US citizens for no good reason.
The above said, the U.S. and Canada are rather unique in the world when it comes to how frequently and extensively they hassle returning citizens even as the US and Canada hold no monopoly on types of customs and border control challenges. That just means we should ask why the US and Canada border control agents behave this way and get away with it with general impunity. Unfortunately, the answer to such a question is that the people in these countries have the paranoid/suspicious/hostile government and government employees and practices which we/they deserve.
When given the choice and at the margin, it's CBSA and/or US CBP related hassle risk that drives me to avoid routing via the US and/or Canada on trips to/from non-US/non-Canadian locations. Unfortunately the "losses" related to that won't change a thing.
Yeah, I think the big thing is that they treat citizens and residents nearly as poorly as they treat non-citizens and residents. I have never, ever been treated in anything but either a 1) kind and welcoming or 2) disinterested manner by any customs/immigration official outside the US - except one set of blatantly racist questioning on 7/8/2005 (day after the London bombings) by some dude in a suit on exit immigration at Heathrow. Even that guy got a sheepish look on his face when I stared at him and let him know with my look that I knew what he was doing and he was barking up the wrong tree. Oh, there was a Swiss guy at GVA who put some weird magnifying glass to my passport and accidentally tore a piece of it, but that STILL only took about 90 seconds.
Originally Posted by
FlyingMBA
AllieKat, what happened at Canadian customs that created such a negative impression? I've rarely if ever had a problem with Canadian CBP. The few bad experiences I've had have largely been with US CBP.
I'm a Canadian citizen though. Maybe that's why?
I've seen them be rude to Canadians, and they are definitely standoffish with me as an American. Even the nicer ones who see the same faces all the time, like at YKF where NEXUS is not an option, still can act a bit brutishly and without common sense.
Originally Posted by
AllieKat
Well, let's see. At the airport I've been sent to secondary a couple times, but I'm okay with that - like I said, I understand the necessity. They're just usually rude, even at primary. Actually, I think the secondary people are much nicer to deal with!
Now, land crossings are another story. OMG... they're just jerks. One time I was pulled inside for secondary once and literally screamed at for about 45 minutes about how he had my criminal record and he knew everything I'd been up to and he knew I was coming up to work, so just admit it. Actually, I have no criminal record and I was coming up to catch a flight out of Calgary - I had tickets and nothing to hide so I just stuck to the truth and eventually it was over and I was sent on my way, but the experience was horrible.
Other times, they've just been rude and/or stupid. I took some Taiwanese kids up to Calgary (it's the closest real city to here) to go shopping once, the idiot tried to tell them they needed visas to get into Canada. She had the wrong China, of course (Taiwan is legally the Republic of China). She looked embarrassed when we pointed that out after she looked it up (YES, she had to look it up) but made no apology.
But the worst was the screaming. That guy has never pulled me inside again, but he always makes it a point to be a rude arse. CBSA at the land border watch too many "how to be a moronic dumb arse of a cop" shows, and have no real knowledge.
But nah, to be fair, no complaints at the airports. They're just grumpy usually, better than US CBP airport staff are.
I've had more trouble at the airport than land, though the CBP folks at the Whirlpool Bridge don't necessarily have the message that only Trusted Travelers cross that bridge.
Originally Posted by
carsnoceans
CBP officers can be a PITA. I bet some of them go on a power trip as well. But I'd take crap from them before the utterly, useless TSA.
Here is the thing about that. You can stand up pretty stiffly and directly to the TSA without any real, swiftly unresolvable consequences. With CBP, they can create issues for you that are a real PITA and won't untangle for some time.
Originally Posted by
jsiricos
Lets not go there, I felt like I wasn't even a human the way I had my passport and green card thrown at me.. and then pushed into a small room with a LOT of other people, no cell reception to call my waiting friend.
Then I was yelled at by a young guy, (25 ish) asian, who barely spoke english! And this was at Dulles..
Dulles is pretty bad. I was secondaried there by some supervisor who was working the customs line (pre-GE) when it was clearly not a secondary (he had to ask what the next secondary was on the list and wrote THAT number on my blue form). The guys inside the secondary room scanned my bags and laughed when I said who it was. The next week, on a mileage run, I saw one of those guys and we had a nice chuckle.
Originally Posted by
JackE
If you're an American citizen, then you receive benefits derived from that citizenship even if you are not in the country during a calendar year.
If you don't wish to pay American taxes, no problem. Just renounce your American citizenship and its benefits.
Uh, do you realize that applies to EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD? You are an American. You should not have to pay for that. You should be honored, not extorted, by your government. Taxes for money earned in a country are fairly taxed by that country. Extraterritorial taxes, unless the product of true anti-tax shelter measures, are abhorrent.
Originally Posted by
Blogndog
I certainly have complaints with CBSA at both air and land ports of entry. Lying, as they did to you, is one of their favourite tactics, and I call them out on it every time I catch them. Last time was entering into Quebec. They decided to search me, and then they go take one of my bags away, come back a little bit later and announce: "We have found traces of opium in your baggage, do you have any explanation for that?" It took about a second to figure out what was going on so I said, "yes, I do have an explanation -- it's your usual lying of to travelers. You have haven't 'found' anything at all, you just have this habit of telling people that and trying to get a reaction out of them. Are you done wasting my time now?"
At the airport, I have been detained for hours, I've been told they have "discovered child porn" on my computer, that I was "going to be arrested," that they "found drugs", all kinds of nonsense. Last time they only let me go after I started screaming "you are a bunch of lying scumbags" at three of them. I've had them damage valuable artworks that had been carefully packed, and multiple complaints have produced no result.
That said, the CBP is still worse -- they have been repeatedly sued for these things.
That is fairly shocking. I've never had such outright jokes asked me, even in the most abusive encounters. I did have one guy at the Quebec border with Vermont ask me on what was probably a rightful immigration secondary (I had a girlfriend in Canada and had a ton of stuff in my car as I was moving back to New Orleans from Boston) how long I was spending in Montreal...60 seconds after I told him I was driving up to Ottawa and running late. I responded with "just long enough to drive through on the way to Ottawa...but you already knew that." He stamped me in and went back to dealing with the drunks who they were making sober up before continuing.
Originally Posted by
Blogndog
Its not the only "developed" country that taxes non-residents. It's the only country of any kind that does so, except Eritrea, and the United States joined most of the rest of the UN General Assembly in voting for a resolution that labelled Eritrea a human rights violator for the practice.
Yeah, its a joke.
Originally Posted by
MLCJ
"Benefits one receives is only minor"? Yeah, like a passport that gets you most places in the world visa free and if you should experience a situation while abroad, a country with embassies in most countries with a staff that will actually do something to help you out. Not really minor in my book. In regards to taxes, please don't forget, the first $97,000 is tax free but if you are so upset about the taxes, what's a $2,500 processing fee? Oh but wait, people just like to complain but rarely take the U.S. up on giving up that passport...
Bottom line is if you are a U.S. citizen, it's your right not to answer the questions. While they can't refuse you entry, don't get upset when YOUR actions causes you a delay. I can't for the life of me understand what is wrong with a border agent asking you where you've been and what your bringing back into the country.
1) The US is the only country in the world that does that, and has condemned others for the practice. Also, every other country in the world provides the same service - and that includes such insignificants with passports that get you nowhere like the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Sweden, Norway...Oh...wait...those countries do all the same things for you as the US.
2) Where you have been is completely and utterly irrelevant and customs questions are irrelevant to immigration staff. What YOU'RE bringing back into the country has some customs relevance, but where you have been has none.
Originally Posted by
AllieKat
I agree totally inappropriate. The questions aren't always the problem. The attitude and intent is just as important.
Exactly. Treating American citizens like it is some sort of favor to let them back into their own country is a joke. Further, treating people who are almost certainly entering to spend money and go home as criminals who are clearly illegally immigrating is horrific and the number one reason the US can never achieve its full potential as a tourism mecca.
Originally Posted by
JW76
I have no idea. It must be some quirk in their system. I have a very common name ...
Truthfully, the Canadians are the worst. One woman at the border asked me why I was coming to Canada, who I was meeting and if I'd ever been to Canada. Well, I am a Canadian citizen and you are holding my Canadian and US passports in your hands one of which states "Place of birth: Canada." So, um, yes, I've been to Canada, and the rest of it is none of your damned business.
Another lady in Vancouver thumbed through my US passport and asked me why I'd been to Myanmar, Thailand, Russia etc. Well, to my knowledge, it's not illegal to go there, I clearly have the correct visas, so what are you fishing for exactly? That sort of scrutiny just never happens routinely anywhere else on earth, something which seems to be lost on the non-traveling public. And it is totally unjustified in my opinion.
Why on earth would you give them your US passport? You are a Canadian and you always enter your home country on that country's passport.
Otherwise, I agree that these people are morons. You are Canadian, they must welcome you home and buzz off.
Originally Posted by
trekker954
OP, get real.
On a given day CBP screens over a million passengers and apprehends over 1,000 individuals suspected of a crime (including the mexico border).
There are plenty of more stats if you need that. About 35 CBP officers have died in the line of duty since the creation of DHS/CBP in 2003.
If you do not want to have to answer questions posed by a CBPO, then don't travel internationally. Its that simple.
CBP officers can inspect you and your belongings without a warrant. The officer asks questions, that may seem personal to you but they aren't, they are just a tool to them. So answer the officer because he/she doesn't want to inspect your belongings if it's unnecessary.
Defending the indefensible is unbecoming, but I'll bite.
1) They mostly arrest people with outstanding warrants for whatever. That comes out during a passport scan, not during harassment. The rest are arrested for some sort of customs violation that arises to an actual crime. That happens everywhere.
2) Only 4 have died due to the murderous action of others, and one more drowned while chasing some Chinese undocumented persons. All 4 were involved in incidents of attempting to interdict drug smuggling near the southern border - a highly questionable form of mission creep. The rest died of health issues or accidents. All 4 who were murdered appear to have been Border Patrol. None who were murdered were working in ports of entry, including airports where passengers are screened anyway. Don't believe me, click below:
http://www.cbp.gov/about/in-memoriam...died-line-duty
Those who harass people in the airport are not doing a dangerous job, nor are they doing a proper service to their country when they harass people.
Originally Posted by
MLCJ
Fair enough, be happy with it then. There are many people right now as I type standing in line at a U.S. Embassy around the world trying to come here. Live a year in most parts of Africa or Asia and you won't be complaining or trying to figure out how to sue to get rid of your citizenship because you have to pay taxes on anything over $97,000. In fact, most in the U.S. would love to have that "issue".
Also, if you were born in the US to non-American parents, they voluntarily applied for your citizenship so you might want to take it up with them. While you have it due to birth, they had to claim it (or you later in life).
You don't "claim" citizenship, unless you are naturalized. All persons born on US soil are citizens, automatically. With automatic birth registry at the hospital now the norm, there is no way to avoid dual taxation.
Originally Posted by
MLCJ
You are correct, but you or your parents must claim it, ie applying for your passport? If they were living legally in the US, they could have gone to their home country's embassy/consulate and received a passport for your return travel to your home country without claiming your citizenship. If you're parents are British citizens and had you while working here or traveling and you returned to the UK on a UK passport, you never applied for a US passport and never worked in the US once you grew up, there is no requirement for you to pay taxes simply because there is no way to even know who you are abroad. Either you or your parents applied for your passport, ie claiming your citizenship, and that is what caused you to be subject to taxes.
You are so wrong.
Originally Posted by
mre5765
The CBSA, to my knowledge, does not act nearly as maliciously as happened to that gentleman. They can be jerky, but generally behave when it comes to crossing physical lines.
Originally Posted by
djtsukasa
We do have to remember why it got really strict in the first place.
No, tell me. And don't list the two numbers that surround 10. It was bad before that. There was just more accountability before.
Originally Posted by
FlyingHoustonian
Why? Please share.
It must be the KinderEggs...
^^
Originally Posted by
pewpew
[
For preclearance, whose lawsapply? Canada's? The US's? Then, would the 9th circuit's rulings only be applicable to those flying to AK, AZ, CA, etc, or to those actually going through CBP screening physically in those US states?
Both. Further, the 9th Circuit - contrary to its general reputation - is one of the worst courts when it comes to border and even airport security issues.
Originally Posted by
halls120
CBP is important, and we need them to do their jobs. That doesn't include exceeding their authority and asking questions they have no right to ask.
I have a different way of dealing with CBP officers who exceed their authority - "Let's get your supervisor" always deflates the most arrogant and excitable officer.
On part one, I generally agree. Doing their job also does not include intimidating and harassing those who wish to enter the country legally. But I know you already agree with that.
On part two, that sometimes works. It doesn't work when its the supervisor acting the fool.