Originally Posted by
robyng
I'm not sure I understand all of your logic WRT - for example - the "basic wine" versus the "premium wine". When it comes to food - say you order a 4 course fixed menu that has various supplements available. Like a course with truffles that's an extra $40. Same number of courses - same amount of work for the server. Do you tip on the basic menu price - or the price you actually wind up paying with the supplement charge (we tip on the latter amount)? Also - if I order a "premium" alcohol brand in a cocktail - I tip based on what I actually pay for the drink - not on what a "well drink" would cost.
What do you do about the value of the BYO wine? Some sources suggest that one tip on the "value" of BYO wine (whatever that is - what you paid for the wine - or what the restaurant might charge for it) - but I doubt that view is widely held. And any corkage fees for BYO wine? I assume a server has to provide the same service when you BYO as when you order off the menu. And my impression is that corkage fees go to the restaurant - not the server.
Note that we don't bring wine to restaurants. First - because I don't drink wine for the most part. Second - because we know the local restaurants we favor tend to make whatever profits they make on alcohol - not food (we want to make sure they're profitable and don't go out of business). Third - because no way I want to carry something heavy like wine on a trip - particularly one by air.
I suppose one issue is what tips are imputed to servers by the IRS (or other taxing authorities) for purposes of paying taxes on them. Wine purchased with a meal seems to be included in the reporting (and I therefore assume other alcohol is included as well). The reporting rate is only 8% for the IRS - a fair amount less than 15-20%. But a bottle of wine that's very expensive compared to the cost of food could throw the total reporting out of whack. Servers shouldn't have to pay taxes on tips they didn't get.
Another complicating factor these days is "counter dining" where the chefs are handing your dishes to you. And the most a "server" does is handle drink orders and clear away dishes (I've even seen one restaurant where all your silverware is in a little drawer in the counter - Restaurant Frantzen in Stockholm - so you set your own "table"). You're getting a lot less service from servers - and paying the same 20%.
All the questions I have make this issue far too complicated IMO. So we always follow the rule KISS - and tip 20% total for the most part. Perhaps a somewhat higher % for truly extraordinary service (and I guess < 20% for lousy service - although I don't recall any lousy service in recent years). And I honestly believe the Japanese have it right. Pay your employees a decent salary so they don't have to depend on tip income to make a living (and eliminate tipping as a cultural norm).
If everyone followed the Japanese rule - it would make life a lot easier for all of us diners. It would also make life a lot easier for servers - especially those in restaurants that cater to international travelers who come from many different countries with different rules/attitudes about tipping. I just hope we get things right on our upcoming trip to Singapore. Robyn
I'm not terribly concerned with whether or not anyone understands my logic. You asked me to explain, so I tried.
If a restaurant charges corkage for bringing your own bottle of wine, then I consider that to be the charge required for bottle service. We include that amount in what we tip. Of course, if corkage is what the restaurant believes is fair to offset the cost of not providing wine from their own menu, then tipping on the cost of a cheaper bottle of wine is still more than tipping on a corkage fee--so I feel like I'm perfectly appropriate in the calculations I make.
The cited article you included in your previous post reflected that there are no rules when it comes to tipping on wine, as well as the fact that restaurants are not offended when you don't tip on the high value of a single bottle of wine with an expensive dinner.
Restaurants mark up the cost of wine to cover their expenses in acquisition, storage and service, in my opinion. So tipping on that mark up is not appropriate in my opinion.
We have a 4800 bottle cellar with many expensive bottles, mostly but not limited from the New World wine areas (California mostly, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina) with a smaller number from Bordeaux, Burgundy, the Rhone, Italy, Hungary, and Spain. Since our cellar often has better bottles than that of the wine lists at US restaurants, and since our wines were purchased directly from the wineries/vineyards, we almost always find it smarter to bring our own wine to dinner when we dine locally or in the USA...and often when we travel. When we are going to top restaurants where we most often prefer to do a tasting menu with wine pairings, we don't bring our own wine as enjoying wine pairings is one of my favorite things to do. I'm also a serious wine fanatic, in the midst of the UC Davis winemaking graduate certificate program, so I take wine very seriously and also live to visit the vineyards where our favorite wines are grown and made.
I appreciate that not everyone will agree with my take on tipping on wine. To each, his or her own, I say. But trying to chastise me is a fruitless exercise, especially when the very article you've already shared indicates that there are no rules on tipping with wine.