Originally Posted by
kenbks
Contrary to all the people who chastised you for engaging in MS and overstating your income (who are these people? I mean this is Flyertalk, where stories of gaming the system for the maximum miles gain is celebrated. What are they doing here then and who made them judges? Hypocrites)
If you don't understand the difference between maximizing benefits within the rules and fraud, then you personally have bigger issues.
Allow me to run through the elements of fraud and how they map to what OP has told us in this thread:
(a) misrepresentation (false representation, concealment, or nondisclosure) -
OP admitted that he lied about his income.. [apologies if OP is female]
(b) knowledge of falsity (or “scienter”); -
OP told us that he knew he lied about his income. In fact, he asked FTers whether he should lie again and tell Amex that it was an accident and he mistyped the income amount:
Originally Posted by
joykid
So can I say I am sorry since I "fat fingered" the numeric keypad when entering income data on my application ?
(c) intent to defraud, i.e., to induce reliance; -
OP told us specifically that he misstated his income because he was afraid that they would not approve his application if he listed his true income:
Originally Posted by
joykid
I am anxious now, when I applied for the card I said that I make 65k annually while I only make 45k (I know..I know...my bad...sorry.....but at that time I was just scared not get approved and even I said this amount I still get approved with very small credit limit).
(d) justifiable reliance -
OP must have certified to Amex that the contents of his application were true; and
(e) resulting damage. -
Amex extended credit and gave him MR points that he may not have been entitled to obtain.
BTW, common law fraud is not the only claim that's potentially at stake. Since you think,
kenbks, that this is such a trifle, I'd suggest you take a look at Cornell Law School's short write-up about credit card fraud to consider the various federal and state
criminal statutes that are potentially implicated here, and perhaps report back as to whether you still think that this is just about celebrating mileage wins:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/credit_card_fraud
In particular, I direct your attention to 18 USC 1344:
Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice—
(1) to defraud a financial institution; or
(2) to obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities, or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;
shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.
Originally Posted by
joykid
Thank you very much, finally someone who can think clearly, give useful and helpful advice, and not easily judge like others!
You can choose to accept or ignore advice you get here as you choose (in fact, you should consider consulting your own legal advisor, because neither I nor anyone else here is your lawyer and nothing we say constitutes legal advice), but you said that you lied to a bank in order to obtain credit. That's not the same as buying a bunch of pudding cups.
You should very seriously consider who here is thinking clearly and giving helpful advice.
From your screen name, you present yourself as a kid.
This is not a kid's game you're playing.
Greg