Originally Posted by
evergrn
While not to the degree of Tokyo, both Hong Kong and Boston (which was the US example that I used) are pretty train-centric. I worked in downtown Boston, and most of us at my work commuted by train. Anyways, I understand what you're saying.
Not not by a long shot.
And Boston's problem is the same I see in the Bay Area, train lines run into and out of ton but are absolutely useless for in town use. No loop line at all and radii lines that have no loop configuration like say the Marunouchi line.
Originally Posted by
evergrn
But outside of rush hours, why can't they take the stroller onto the train without negative attention? And sometimes situations arise where a parent may have no choice but to take a rush-hour train with the baby. Is that selfish? I don't think so.
They can take the stroller on the train. Good manners dictate not taking up a of of extra space. I know that this not the "me first" attitude prevalent i the US but it works well here. Many people do take the stroller on board and we all accept it. I have never seen the negative attention mentioned. Perhaps a personal perspective only? I see just the opposite in fact from a great many non-peak riders.
Originally Posted by
evergrn
Is it selfish for a cerebral palsy patient on a huge power wheelchair to ride the 8am train? I think not. I recently had to ride a packed Toyoko train with some luggage (delivery service was not an option that particular time). Was I selfish?
No absolutely not selfish. In fact the way that station staff cater to those with extreme mobility issues is quite impressive and heart-warming. They help them down the stairs on motorized devices, they help them on to the train and the staff at the alighting station are made aware of the reverse assistance required. Try finding that level of caring in Boston
As to your luggage question, I think everyone has bee through that and the eye rolling you may see is more of "you poor guy I feel for you but could you" than anything else.
Originally Posted by
evergrn
I don't think the right approach is "We had to do it this way, so that's the way it should be." Many wheelchair-bound people couldn't even get on trains until recently when a lot of stations were not barrier-free. Should all things stay status-quo? This sounds like a load of crap, but I do believe that society advances by being more and more inclusive and convenient.
I am not sure what you are referencing here but I agree progress is good. The issue you are raising of wheelchair-bound people is a little off topic though, or perhaps I should say a much bigger but separate one. Tokyo as a city is embarrassingly inaccessible to wheelchair-bound people. Not only the stations but streets and a variety of other places. that is something I hope the government does a lot about in the run-up to the Olympics.
Originally Posted by
evergrn
My sister-in-law in Tokyo hardly ever took trains with her daughter until the child was old enough to tag along on her own feet. She was too timid to take the stroller onto the train, but it was also too much to carry the baby around along with the backpack and everything else. This limited her life quite a bit. Is that right? Moms raising kids need outlet. They need to be able to get out and get around.
Have a kid and you deal with the hassles of lugging things around, sleeplessness, and limited finances for a while. This is a fact of life. I do and did it put of love and dedication to my own kids. Now I try and assist others (carrying strollers up or down a flight of stairs, etc. when the situation presents itself. Someone feeling limited from taking the train or having too much stuff to carry Around is a product of their own issues. Nobody says how much you must carry other than the 8-20 pounds that is the infant. Nobody says a train is not to be ridden. That sounds like personal issues more than actual issues with the city or Tokyo and its transportation. I find young mothers (and today that extends to both parents) to be some of the most creative, strong and resilient folks I have ever met. In any country.
Originally Posted by
evergrn
But the difference is, most every rider in US and HKG (and probably many other places) have been conditioned to accept that you must accommodate the elderly and stroller-pushing moms. Not the case at all in Tokyo. How often do you see someone give up a train seat in Tokyo for someone else? I'll make a broad generalization, too. I think people in Tokyo, as in rest of Jpn, are polite and very conscientious about not imposing on others (迷惑をかけない). But Tokyo people generally lack kindness in public setting, and they look harshly upon others that they perceive as doing stuff that imposes on others. Sometimes that can be unreasonably stifling.
I could not disagree more. Moreover the signs in every car that indicate the silver seats are for those who are pregnant, elderly or limited in mobility are an accepted norm. I see their adherence daily. It is simply incorrect to suggest otherwise. One may wish to cite their own individual experience but that does not the norm make.
It is apparent I think in these comment s that life in a busy city such as Tokyo with cultural norms for certain behavior may not suit everyone
Not a bad thing at all, just the way we each see the world. I am thoroughly convinced each time I visit the States these days that I love visiting but could not live there for the incredible selfishness I see. Imagine. It is cultural and I understand why it is that way. I just choose to live where I know society works well, or well enough.
It is my contention that people in Tokyo are some of the kindest and most attuned to sharing space people in the world. No where else is the combination of size and modernity. It is unique here and I think it works pretty darn well.