Originally Posted by
nerdbirdsjc
This is the correct answer. United has 99 problems, but the strength of the ex-SFO TPAC operation ain't one.
Well you have not been listening to the Jeff-ster. Recently competition to China is his excuse de jure for UAL's under-performance. Much of that capacity is ex-SFO.
Originally Posted by
channa
To some extent, but mostly from other places (DEN, PHX, LAS, PDX, etc.) that have no or limited direct Asia service. UA handles a lot of flows through SFO, and now those flows may be more optimal through SEA, not to mention there's another option for a lot of folks (e.g., SAN) that wasn't there before.
This is they key point. A population of about 40 million (everyone in the west, except the 7M in the SF bay area who can go direct) now can fly DL one stop to asia, before the only one stop option (other than a few flights via NRT on DL) on United States metal was on UAL. And the LA traffic that UAL has gotten? Some of that will now to to AA with their expanded flights.
Originally Posted by
LarkSFO
UA did upguage their entire SFO-SEA schedule in direct response to DL.
With DL's schedule to LAX, it will be interesting to see if UA responds.
You know and I know though Tom - T1 @ SFO does not make it easier for DL to compete.
But, once AS and DL finally cut their ties, how is DL going to get all these passengers to SEA? On United?
United took the one flight a day on a CRJ-200 and made it mainline. Most of the flights are A319/A320s with few First Seats. Given DALs (and also ...) far superior product it was a very small response.
UAL will not respond with better product because they can't. Where DAL kills them in the better product and the shuttle rules re the tickets.
I don't have a problem with DL's terminal at SFO. What is your issue? Its not the old part (where AS/WN/US/UAX are). The carrier with issues is AAL, I don't know how they can consolidate their operations and there is no path inside security at this point.
I don't see DL and AS cutting the cord. What is the benifit to either in doing so? There are AS fliers at SEA that DL would like on its flights, and some folks who want to take DL flights will fly AS to get to SEA. AS will likely get closer to other partners (as it has been with AA) but I don't see a break up, more that they will reduce the incentive to fly each other, unless its on a joint routing.
Originally Posted by
edgewood49
The real question is how long will DL keep this up? How much money have they dedicated to this service and will they keep it up? Thats the real question.
No idea, but every public statement I have heard is that they are doing better than projected, and the new routes are profitable or break even. I have never heard they were losing any money so far...
Originally Posted by
DC777Fan
For all the battling going on between DL and AS, DL still needs AS's massive feed for the SEA int'l flights. More long haul DL flights out of SEA is a good thing for AS, while increased competition on domestic routes is obviously not. Whether it ends up as a net positive or net negative is TBD IMO.
Traffic overall will go up at SEA. As long as AS carry's some of that traffic, and does not lose HVFers to DL, then its a net positive.
From an O/D perspective, I'd say not. Plenty of O/D traffic in SFO and no doubt eclipses SEA. Last list of pure O/D traffic I saw had SFO at #5 and SEA at #14.
1) New York: 245,750 passengers per day
2) Los Angeles: 184,296
3) Miami: 131,265
4) Chicago: 127,776
5) San Francisco: 120,382
6) Washington DC: 120,201
7) Las Vegas: 91,114
8) Orlando: 89,108
9) Dallas: 83,053
10) Boston: 74,834
11) Houston: 71,060
12) Phoenix: 67,863
13) Atlanta: 61,943
14) Seattle: 60,539
15) Denver: 54,610
16) Philadelphia: 49,178
17) Minneapolis: 46,362
18) San Diego: 45,297
19) Detroit: 43,113
20) Honolulu: 42,039
21) Tampa: 41,991
22) Portland: 32,116
23) Charlotte: 29,540
24) St. Louis: 28,035
25) Salt Lake City: 27,434
Read more:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-...#ixzz34a0v92yg
Thanks for posting the relative numbers. Running them UAL has 120K o/d at SFO, some of which is OAK/SJC, and they have competition on every single overseas routing, some they have two OALs flying it. Seattle has 60K o/d and DAL has NO competition on most of their new routes.
But the key point is LAX 184K, LAS 93K, PHX 67K, DEN 54K (although UAL probably has an advantage there, and the new DEN-NRT is doing very well), SAN 45K, PDX 32K, SLC 27K (advantage DAL)... getting that connection traffic is the key, and SEA is far better situated for much of it than is SFO given the weather issues at SFO and DAL's better service.
Originally Posted by
B787938
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I am not sure there is one locale that depends on AS feed at SEA for international connections on DL,
The DL onslaught at SEA is about killing CO.
It just happens that CO merged with UA and now has the Crown Jewel of TPAC routes.
I would put it that DAL's move at SEA is about taking the high value/corporate traffic that pmUA had a lock on from the Western United States, and grabbing as much as they can of it.