FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - how old of a laptop can I put a SSD solid state hard drive in ?
Old Aug 1, 2013 | 1:14 am
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nkedel
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Originally Posted by BigLar
Good gawd! That's how the '286 switched in and out of protected mode. Mid '80's, I believe.

I don't think anyone's done that since the '386 was introduced.
Yeah, you could drop out of protected mode through software on the 386 (or use virtual x86 mode.)

The A20 line hack was still emulated on modern systems as recently as the chipsets in use in 1999. No idea on current ones; may still.

--

Performance degradation over time is a general issue on SSDs, but unless you move around really huge files a lot, or are benchmarking, most people won't notice. They especially won't notice on SATA2 controllers that won't go above ~270MB/sec to begin with.

The Samsung 840 Pro I've got in my laptop presently has the problem worst of any model I've used, although the problem was pretty bad on the earlier Intel drives (X25M). Much less noticeable with the Intel 320 and various Sandforce-based drives I've used.

Originally Posted by gfunkdave
NEVER defrag an SSD. They don't need it, since there's no read head that needs to traverse the disk. Defragging an SSD with any regularity can drastically reduce its lifespan.
Probably won't hurt any, but it can, and it won't help at all.

I'd look in to finding an appropriate driver that gives XP TRIM support. I know my cheapo SSD that I put in my 2006 Thinkpad had such a one.
Using the manufacturer-provided "trim free space" tool is usually good enough; Samsung and Intel are readily downloadable. I don't find it's necessary on Sandforce-based drives, although the Intel tool will work with their Sandforce-based drives (520,330,335, etc.)

Originally Posted by stimpy
My 5+ year old SSD is still super fast compared to a HDD. I haven't noticed any decrease.
It's not hard to be faster than an rotational disk, unless your main criteria is sequential write speed. For most people worrying about speed differences between different SSD models (except the very oldest) or the performance degradation is an irrelevance.

Originally Posted by Zarf4
There's a quite good article describing the effect at: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738/8
Which is talking about 4 year old SSDs.

A "degraded" SSD these days will still write at 100MB+ per second, and with an IOPS rate of around 1000. Both of these are very slow by the standards of SSDs, but the former is as good as a spinning laptop drive, and the latter about 5x better.

For most people, that's plenty good enough. If you've got particularly demanding workloads, it may not be.

3. SSDs have a limited number of write cycles per block before they fail. Today's MLC NAND is usually rated for about 3000-5000 writes. Although this doesn't seem like much wear-leveling algorithms spread the data around the SSD so one spot shouldn't fail well before the others.
3,000-5,000 writes (which is actually more the last generation of drives -- it's down to 1,000-3,000*) is an average. Blocks can fail WAY faster, or last way longer. Some spots will inevitably fail sooner; all drives have spare space.

(* using standard measures; a lot of controllers are starting to incorporate signal processing that should make the same flash usable for more writes.)

Originally Posted by stimpy
Thanks Zarf4, but I'm not totally convinced. The article you linked describes Intel SSD's, but I wonder if Samsung SSD's behave the same?
The basic effect is there on almost all SSDs, to some degree or another. The level of impact is much less visible with normal workloads on modern controllers.

Originally Posted by stimpy
Thanks for all this detail. I guess for a Mac Air, which is fast becoming my go to travel laptop, I don't need to worry about the SSD?
Under a normal workload, no.

If you're overwriting a significant fraction of the SSD multiple times daily, maybe. I write a 20-40gb dataset out to my laptop daily. I don't worry about it.

Write limits tend to fail gradually in detectable ways.

Originally Posted by jdshscja
Although I should attach a couple caveats to what I said above. The numbers I used were for higher end SSD, because this is a technology where you get what you pay for. Many low-mid SSD do get as little as 3000-5000 writes per cell but this isn't as bad as it sounds. SSD's generally set aside spare blank cells if some fail. Also the 3000-5000 number is usually a GUARANTEE of writes and the actual average is anywhere from 2-20x higher than that.
Very good points. Also, manually partitioning so as to give a larger spare space (or even just making sure your drive doesn't fill up, and using TRIM) will decrease write amplification and improve the effective write lifetime.

Originally Posted by LAXlocal
is there a way to check how many write cycles an SSD has done ?
In most cases, yes -- most drives provide either the total writes (which can be divided into the size of the drive) or an estimate of the usable lifetime, via the SMART variables. How to check it depends on the model -- the way it's reported as a raw SMART variable value is often unreadable.

For Intel drives, the Intel Toolbox reports it. For Samsung drives, ditto Samsung Magician.

For a lot of other drives, it's worth checking if the manufacturer has a utility, but you may need to use something like Smartmontools (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontools/wiki ) and figure out how to interpret the variables yourself.
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