Originally Posted by
kokonutz
Thank you for conceding that the FTEF's efforts are commercial, even if they are non-profit. ^
As
gleff notes it is not my concession to make as I am no longer involved with that organization, but that was the premise I operated under throughout my time there. We were non-profit but definitely commercial in our undertakings. Maybe my misunderstanding of the organization's goals is part of why I resigned my position with them; who knows. I certainly wasn't the boss of the organization so my views should not be construed as representing them; it was simply what I thought we were doing at the time.
Originally Posted by
kokonutz
But the for-profit venture I was actually referring to being coordinated with is the
FFP conference with which shares the venue with the 'University' classes being offered, with the 'FT' Awards and the 'Lunch with Randy and Friends' sandwiched in between.
I am quite familiar with the AI thing and, again as
gleff notes, I do not see that overlap as an issue at all. Unless a lot of industry insiders are now reading FT to figure out where the appropriate industry conferences are being held there seems to be no conflict there IMO.
Originally Posted by
kokonutz
Further, it is quite common for a non-profit to run a conference or seminar for a 'profit,' with the proceeds going to things like organizer salaries, benefits and travel expenses. Many, many non-profits fund overhead expenses by making money on seminars, conferences and conventions. So the distinction between 'non-profit,' 'not-profitable,' and 'commercial' is in many instances irrelevant.
This is, I agree, where things start to blur. When you have a 6 figure budget there is always going to be room for a couple bucks here and there to become "event supplies" that maybe shouldn't be. If I get a new iPad as part of my volunteer work (
n.b. I never have for any of the events I've participated in the organization of) does that make it a commercial venture? Probably not IMO, but it does start to raise more questions.
Originally Posted by
kokonutz
People DO cash in, however, on conducting conferences and seminars. Perhaps no one here is...yet. But it's the 'creeping commercialism' that has me, and apparently a few other, FTers concerned. There seems to be some serious brand-building and coordination with for-profit ventures that certainly do no look like a 'classic' do (like the Alaska, Tel Aviv, Seattle, London etc.) to me.
I tend to agree and, quite frankly, while I was involved this was my goal for the organization. Again, I'm no longer involved so I cannot speak to what their intentions are, but I believed that was part of where we were headed while I was there.
That said, I do not believe that having those events discussed on FlyerTalk is wrong. Not a single bit at all. I believe that the current "Commercial posts" ToS rule is horribly naive, outdated and misguided for the community that we have today. Certainly there are many other commercial ventures that are welcomed within our community and generally speaking they are beneficial to the community, even if someone profits personally from them. They are not walled off, specially flagged or otherwise identified. They just are.
At the end of the day what I believe is more important than commercial or not is whether the members are participating in the community or not. Whether they are providing value through their presence or just trying to leech money out of the community. It turns out that identifying which ventures fall into those two categories is actually pretty simple in most cases.
Commercial or not, the events organized by the FTEF or the Chicago Do or all the others that I've seen survive here on FT as threads absolutely represent events that are providing value into the community and organized by members that provide value into the community more than they take out of it.
At the end of the day that's all that matters IMO.