Originally Posted by
billycorgan
Tipping isn't bribery. The server doesn't start the meal with "You will tip me 15% or I will make sure that you have an unpleasant dining experience."
And yet you feel the need to write this:
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
Since this will be my last post in this thread I do want to leave one parting "food for thought" comment. I make this statement not to scare anyone into any type of behavior but just to give some final insight into this thread.
I do want people to understand that restaurants are responsible for handling the food that you are about to eat.
If you are a frequent customer to a place you probably have some type of reputation with the staff. There were some groups that came in often that were excellent tippers and every server wanted them and always gave their best and went above and beyond for them. There were some groups that were notoriously poor tippers (if at all) and no one wanted them and they usually would receive just average service if that.
The vast majority of the people I worked with wouldn't do anything to a patrons food but I did know of a few that would/did. I liked my job too much to do that, but there were others who were willing to take the risk of being fired to get back at a rude customer or someone that had stiffed them too many times.
So it's not a bribe but there are those who will spit in your food if you don't.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING MY POINT.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
I can't believe that you are comparing the situation of one state to the other 49 then suggesting everyone to move there. Not very logical or practical.
California is not the only state that does this, and every single state has the option to follow and every single state has citizens who could push for this change. The fact that they don't make this change is what REALLY hurts wait staff, and people like you are doing nothing to make this change happen. If you want to see the problem you should look in the mirror rather than attack people who refuse to participate in what you helped to establish is bribery.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
I don't know if you have noticed this or not Plane, but most people aren't career servers. Waiting tables is a job that most people do while they are going to school and/or trying to get experience to get a better job in the career that are pursuing. The statement of "Go get a better job" is not only insensitive, but often impractical. Most people don't walk out of high school with the ability or connections to go out and get the great jobs. Heck some people with the job market the way it is can't even find a good job with their college diploma. But lets make them all suffer because after all they should all just get better jobs or move to California.
And most people do not get out of high school and take a job as a waiter.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
Or better yet maybe all waitstaff should just quit and live on welfare, at least then they would be guaranteed a livable wage.
Yeah, that will work. You are clearly getting desperate and losing this argument if you feel the need to throw out this wild claim.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
If you do not tip then your business while perhaps good for the company, is not good for any workers that are unfortunate enough to have to serve you.
Yet they are fortunate enough to have a job, just not one that you will push for change to their salary. You would rather they live on the generosity of others.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
Ok, planemechanic you got me, payroll is going to go up by thousands of dollars each month. Where is that additional money going to come from? You say you are from America, what do most business do 99% of the time when the occur extra expenses?
Business will always do the same thing. They will raise prices to whatever the market will bear. Just like the cost of renting a home. If the market will bear a higher price the landlord will raise the price. That does not mean they will make a profit. If a business' costs go up they MIGHT raise prices, or they might cut costs in other places. You have no evidence which will happen at any particular location.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
The job of a server is to estabilsh a personal connection with the customer.
Their job is to SERVE me my food. I don't need or care about their "personal" connection attempt, and I would venture to say that most of them don't care about it either, other than as a way to increase their bribe.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
Otherwise why would we tell you our name?
Most likely because they are told to do so as part of their employment. Also to let me know who they are in case I have a problem or need something.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
If you don't want service why not just order things to go and take it home.
Why, the business I am engaging to conduct this transactions pays their employees to provide the service I am asking for.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
If you do want service then you obviously know that it is polite and customary to tip if the service was acceptable.
I want service and I am paying for service. Why do you think you need to get involved in that transaction.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
30 years ago a gallon of gas was a quarter. Sure it can go back to a quarter but it is very unlikely. 15-18% is considered standard at most places where the service was to your liking. That is to handle cost of living. No one likes inflation anymore than they like tipping.
I think you have your math wrong. Although prices were lower back then the percentage still works. 10% of a $3 meal is 30 cents, 10% of a $30 meal is $3. THAT is where the cost of living and inflation come in, not in the artificial increase in the percentage. In your world we will be seeing a 50% tip as "normal" in 50 years. And then you will be back here defending that new bribery system.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
You know plane, I got in on this thread to help and to try and give insider advice from my time as a waiter. I no longer wait tables, it was a job to help pay for my bills while I was in college getting my masters. I now have that "better job" it only took five years of hard work and study, plus some internships.
Maybe you would have worked harder at it if you weren't getting such low pay. Who knows, but it is a possibility.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
I am grateful that I had a job like waiting tables that allowed me the flexibility to be able to work and take care of my other responsibilities. I am equally grateful that the vast majority of my customers over the 5 years I worked in the business did not have the attitude and beliefs of Plane and others who don't believe in tipping. I would surely be much worse off today than I am now if that were the case.
So you had this job, in part, because it offered you other things besides money, it offered you flexibility. That must have come into the decision when you were thinking about taking the job. But since it came with low wages you want your customers to supplement your income. That's your choice, but we don't have to agree with you.
Originally Posted by
billycorgan
I apologize if I came across rude or angry, but when I see people who have beliefs that hurt people it does make me angry. For example, TSA has the belief that they need to see children naked, or to harass honest people with disabilities to make airplanes safer and that makes me angry.
Your anger isn't helping your position here. Maybe if we tipped the TSA they would no longer want to see children naked? Have you tried tipping them?