Originally Posted by
PhlyingRPh
I wonder what the FAA would say if an aircraft owner formed a private club and charged a membership fee to all who joined? Then, anyone in the club who wanted to get from A to B and split the cost of operating the flight could do so.
In fact, this is a very good idea and is common practice.
A way to do this is to get 3-4 people together to buy a used airplane (a very nice Beech Bonanza runs around $140k or so, figure another $3-5k/year n maintenance/hangar fees) and hire a commercial pilot to fly it. As a part 91 operation (only owner/operators and their guests are allowed for personal pleasure and business operations), you can avoid the Part 135 for hire issues.
As long as everyone owns a share of the airplane, contributes to fixed expenses and pays their own variable expenses I think this would pass FAA muster. Corporate pilots are usually flight instructors who have enough time to be looking to move up from flight instructing on a path to be airline pilots, and would regard a job like this as a nice step up.
Another possibility is a flying club.
I was once on the board of a very successful club. At the time we had 8 airplanes and over 200 members. Many people, including me learned to fly at such a club.
Here's how it worked:
Club members joined the club for a $200 initiation fee and paid a monthly dues fee. The monthly dues was right around $70 and covered fixed expenses like hangar rent, inspection costs etc.
Club members could rent airplanes for varying rates. These rates are a little out of date, but in general they were:
Cessna C152 (2 place/105 kts/~375 nm range/5-6 gal/hour 100 LL aviation gasoline) $75/hour including fuel.
Cessna C172 (4 place/115 kts/~500 nm/7-9 gal/hr 80 Octane or alcohol free 87 Octane automobile gasoline) $85/hour
Cessna C182 ( 4 place/135 kts/~500 nm/12.5 gal/hr 80 Oct. or alc. free automobile gasoline) $115/hr.
Piper PA200R (4 place/132 kts/ 550 nm/10.5 gal/hr 100 LL) $125/hr.
Beech Bonanza G36(5-6 place/175 kts/670 nm/15.5 gal/hr 100 LL) $90/hr excluding fuel -- dry rate; add about $60-70/hr at today's prices for fuel = $150-$160/hr.
Beech Baron B55 (6 place twin engine/185 kts/775 nm/28 gal/hr 100 LL) $150/hr dry + fuel costs of around $120/hr.
Most people used these clubs as a way to learn to fly. Typically a person joined the club as a student pilot, quickly made friends with the people there, and spent a season getting a private pilot certificate. Instructors cost around $30/hr today, and a private pilot rating took about 3 months and 40-60 hours of training.
As a student pilot, you can hire an instructor to teach you to fly in these airplanes, and go on trips, as long as it was for the primary purpose of flight instruction. Once you had a private pilot certificate you could rent the airplanes and go on trips with them. General restrictions at our club were: 1 trip/month of up to 7 days was allowed, a second trip carried minimum hours charges per day, usually 2 hours.
Originally Posted by
LuvAirFrance
Four wheeled jitneys were never considered taxicabs. They weren't run as a business. As for rules, how effective is FAA at enforcing ANY rules?
In fact, in general aviation, they are very effective. And in nearly all my dealings with the FAA the field inspectors were with 2 exceptions very reasonable, but sticklers to the regulations. I never, once had an issue with an FAA inspector stepping out of line, making stuff up as they went along, or crossing lines. Something I cannot say for their cousins in DHS/TSA. I had a lot of dealing with the FAA and was an aviation safety counselor for many years. In most areas, the aviation community is pretty small, and word gets around and if someone were running an illegal air taxi op, the feds would get wind of it fairly quickly and come down hard on the pilot.
In fact, one third of the private planes out there are "lost". The info of their registration is out of date. Apparently, they fly anyway. Which shows the degree of attention FAA really gives them.
This is absolutely not true. Do not believe verbatim what the news media tell you or the government propaganda behind it.
Here's the real story:
Valid, current registrations: 70%
Registrations in process by the FAA: 1%
Registrations Revoked, N number not reassigned: 4%
Sold, not registered by new owner: 5%
Invalid addresses: 9%
Inactive/Unairworthy: 12%
So, 71% are completely valid and correct or will be shortly. Less than 13% are "lost" and those only temporarily, and that number more likely 5%.
The revoked registrations occur when a US registered aircraft is exported and re-registered in its new country, or when an owner wishes to change an N-number to a newly available N-number. The old numbers are revoked and may not be reassigned until a new airplane is built or not at all. That brings us to 75%.
Inactive/unairworthy registrations are usually because an airplane has crashed, been damaged, owned by the insurance company awaiting disposition or parting out or salvage, or is sitting in a barn somewhere in pieces covered in dust. This brings us to 87% known and accounted for aircraft.
The 5% sold-not registered by new owner are people who are breaking the law. Eventually an FAA inspector will walk up to them on a ramp somewhere and do a document check and they will be caught or they will update their registration because an IA will not sign off their annual until they do.
The 9% with invalid addresses are likely someone who moved and has not yet updated the triennial report. Illegal, yes, but how many people get new drivers licenses within the time they are required to when they move to a new state? Eventually they do.
In addition to the FAA registration, every state that I've lived in has required aircraft to be registered on an annual or biannual basis. Easy to enforce since the vast majority of airplanes are based at airports, and airport managers and state enforcement agents can check N numbers against state databases.
The FAA sends out a Tri-annual registration card but only required its return if a change in location or ownership has transpired. In addition, they require an update from owners if the aircraft based address changes within 30 days of the change in location. Similarly with pilot licenses. My aircraft registration was filed when I bought my airplane in 1990. Every owner must register the sale with the FAA, or the airplane is considered unairworthy and at the mandatory annual inspection, a document check is part of the inspection and the inspector will not sign off the annual without full records.
The FAA has recently changed that system from a passive system to an active system. I'm not sure I agree with this change, as, for the most part pilots are compliant, and every time an airplane changes ownership, the registration is current.
The new system is more bureaucratic and largely driven, I think, by DHS, and will require re-registration every 3 years, so I guess this is good for the economy, since the FAA will have to hire more inspectors to process the re-registration, and will decrease the unemployment rate and move more money from the private sector to the government. But then, at the rate things are going, soon we will all be government employees. понять товарища?