Originally Posted by
mahohmei
OK, folks, I just drew up the following logic:
- I will not submit to a scope-or-grope, nor do I intend to break any laws or wind up in custody, court, or even having to lawyer up.
Fair enough.
- If I arrived at an airport and got "selected" for scope-or-grope, my preferred method would be to turn around, return to ticketing, and ask for my luggage back, fully understanding that I'd lose the ticket price. Then go to the nearest bus station and make my way back home.
It has been speculated that the TSA will try to stop you even though they do not have the authority to detain you. They will certainly call an LEO who will try to find you.
IMO, the best approach if you really want to avoid legal hassles at that point is to double opt out by saying "I opt out of the scanner and the patdown. Please call over a police officer immediately. I will wait." IMO, you want to be the one to request the LEO. Not them. No matter what you will be dealing with the airport police, but you want to frame the incident in your terms, not theirs. As soon as you double opt out the TSA becomes irrelevant. Theoretically you could even ignore them if you like. Just step out of the way of the other passengers. Their best case against you seems to be for causing a disruption. If they grab you for any reason they could be liable for assault and battery charges. They are not LEOs and do not have such authority.
When the LEO approaches I would simply tell him that I have opted out of the nude scanner due to the privacy/safety issues and I also opt out of the enhanced patdown due to not wanting to have my genitals massaged by a stranger. If you want you can add that you believe both to be unreasonable searches and fourth amendment violations. If the officer gives you a hard time in any way or tells you that you will not be able to leave the airport if you don't submit to a patdown then go into the standard "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?".
- Once a TSO selects you for scope-or-grope, you are legally bound to choose one or the other; it's illegal to refuse and turn around.
[citation needed]
Conclusion: flying in the USA makes you vulnerable to being forced, by law, to select a scope-or-grope.
[citation needed]
Therefore, I'm done flying in the USA.
Fair enough, but that may not be completely necessary. I believe a TSO here stated that he would guess you have about a 1 in 5 chance of being selected for the NoS. That gives you an 80% chance on each leg of avoiding the opt-out grope. Of course you still have to get past the standard secondary screening grope. I have no idea what the odds are for that. I seem to get them frequently but I may be on a list of some kind. Still I believe it would be fair to say that, as long as you are not an attractive female, you have a greater than 50% chance of not being groped for each trip departure.
Also there are still some smaller, regional airports
that don't yet have the scanners. In those airports you only have to avoid the secondary screening grope, which makes your chances of getting on your plane much, much higher.
In the near future, I was planning to fly to EYW in July and MHT in August. These are both small-ish airports, as is my home TLH. But that's no guarantee that the Nude-O-Scopes won't be waiting for me when I show up.
MHT doesn't have the scanners yet. Although they could have them by July. Check the list and maybe ask around to see if EYW or TLH have the scanners. In the end it is up to you whether you want to risk being harrassed, yelled at, and illegally detained for a double opt out, but I do believe that the more people DOOP (Double Opt Out as Protest) the better it will be for the resistance.
Originally Posted by
FetePerfection
So even if you don't alarm the WTMD you can still be selected for a grope? Well that's just peachy. I guess that's my time to turn around and try to leave. We'll see how that works out for me.
I can personally vouch for that. I have never set off a WTMD and have had secondary screenings many times.