Originally Posted by
florin
I disagree with the part I emphasized... I don't think DL pays a partner for an award seat. I think it's more like this: airlines A and B decide to share award inventory. When A releases award seats on a particular flight, members of both A and B FF programs can book those seats. The same goes for the other airline. No money exchanged. These "free" seats are accounted for; they are seats that they don't expect to sell anyway.
That is what I thought also... but, Delta does have the real value of a SkyMile disclosed: $0.0054, as that is the price at which it sells it to other airlines (e.g. other ST airline FF to get that airline miles for flying DL). However, I wouldn't be surprised if the same value is also paid for the award seat on the other airline. E.g. $540 for an 100,000 award seat (if entirely on the other airline).
Though still reciprocal sharing also could be the case, just then in some cases it may be greatly unbalanced..
Originally Posted by
bennytma
I have what might be an old pdf chart of multi-airline awards using DL miles. It includes itineraries that do not include flights to/from the US. PM me if you want me to send it to you.
That is out of date and not accurate anymore, though. The accurate charts are the 12 SkyMiles award charts from nwa.com (before Dullta forcefully tore it down from the site - being rather dull it didn't notice it for quite a few months, but when it did it got them taken off in no time, leaving many 404s (bad links) to the same).
Originally Posted by
florin
Hahaha! As if you could actually redeem SkyPesos for flights from HI to EU...
You can't. Trust me, I've spent hours searching. There is next to no domestic availability HNL-ATL/MSP/DTW/LAX/SFO/SEA. The int'l flights are there, but you can never get the domestic flight. (And the few days per year may be can get domestic, then on that day no int'l available, or it comes in too late to make connection.)
The only way to go is via NRT or ICN. That is actually a better way to go anyway (IMO slightly shorter route, better service, better connecting airport and a more pleasant experience), and has at least some award availability (like 2 days in May, 2010 for example at this time, 1 seat each, HNL-NRT in BE). But, on that I've been told, in the same e-mail CS thread, both that it is valid award routing (HNL-NRT/ICN-__EU on DL/SkyTeam) and that it's not, always the next agent contradicting the former.
I am quite sure that was valid routing on NW (hence an NW agent telling it's valid routing), but I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the things that Dullta quietly took away (hence a DL agent saying that it's not valid routing). However, it still is a valid SkyTeam route per skyteam.com. But, as with so many things with Dullta, such a simple question it's outright impossible to get a straight and honest answer to. Than more times you ask, than more confusion and truly a different response each time (even when you'd think there's only two possible answers: yes and no, you end up getting four answers (!): yes, no, and then "yes but it depends on xxx" and "no but it could be a yes may be sometimes based on some conditions we can't disclose to you"). Classic Dullta!
Originally Posted by
florin
Remember that award inventory is capacity controlled. If they expect to fully sell a flight, no seats are made available for awards. That is why it is very difficult to find awards at peak travel times (e.g. around certain holidays). Airlines don't sell 100% of the seats on 100% of the flights. There will always be some empty seats. The revenue management software, when it does the pricing and everything, also computes how many seats are expected to go unsold. I am assuming that at least some of those seats are made available for awards; it would be a win-win situation for the airline.
Now think of airlines and FF partnerships. If 2 airlines are partners, it makes sense for them to share award inventory. I.e. all award seats are available to members of both FF programs. Why would they bother paying each other? It sounds like a complicated, unnecessary exchange. Those seats would be empty anyway. Why keep swapping around small amounts of money, when it will likely pretty much even out in the end?
First on the latter, I still think there is payment (I suspect at the $0.0054 per mile published actual cost of an SM), as otherwise there could be a great disrepancy. E.g. think of a big airline like DL with a well established FF program and small one like VN where there's only a few FFs (most people flying don't bother to earn miles). You will likely have many fold more DL flyers booking awards on VN (may be 10:1, if not even more), than VN FFs booking flights on DL. So, if there is no remuneration for the award seats, it will end up rather uneven and unfair. So, there should be some exchange of $$, and $0.0054/mile certainly makes sense (and explains also the hidden, behind-the-scenes, increasing DL partner award blocking, and why DL purposefully makes it so hard to redeem for partner flights).
Now on the former, that is all fine and makes sense, but can someone explain to me the wild changes in award inventory? Case in point: HNL-NRT for May, 2010 in BE.
This Monday it was about 6 days available at low.
This Tuesday it was about 20 days available in low (almost all on the 767 - no wonder and makes sense, DL discounting 767 BE to low, while the superior A330 and 747 BE is mid).
Now today it's only 2 days available at low.
This is not just the calendar, this is actual availability (I always click through each green to verify it's really so - though for direct DL only flights I do find the calendar to be fine and accurate).
I am sure that it's not somehow all of them got booked over the last two days, esp. as on many days it wasn't just the usual 1 BE seat but 4 or more seats available. (Great! If only all DL award inventory was like that at 11 months out - as IMO it should be - then everyone could be happy, knowing that if they book ahead they can likely get lows fairly close to the dates and routes they want.)
It's just that the results you will get for award really depend on your luck and when you check. I've seen this happen many other times also. All of a sudden there will be some 4x+ more low awards on a route than there used to be, only to be gone a day or two (or even just a few hours) later. And, this is not close-in (like for rest of July) or such, where more lows are made available at some 3 weeks out or such timeframe. This is 11 months ahead, where likely few if any bookings, award availability going from decent to great to pretty bad and swinging back and forth.
Why this chaos (frequent, wild, changes) and lack of apparent logic in the award inventory? Anyone know? Or it's just another one of those unexplained Dullta mysteries?