Originally Posted by
RichardKenner
I don't understand why SATTSO is having so much trouble explaining this, but I do understand the confusion here. As I understand it, the policy has changed significantly since Gilmore. It doesn't violate that case, but makes that case less relevant.
As I understand it, the policy in effect at that time was that there were two cases: you either showed "acceptable" (where the definition of the has changed slightly) ID or went through secondary screening. That policy has changed (and it had to or the NFL has no meaning).
The new policy, also as I understand it, mostly separates the issue of ID and secondary screening. Now, being able to identify oneself is a requirement to fly. That can be accomplished by showing the listed set of IDs or by showing other IDs, going through a verification process based on public records, or a combination of the latter two. If that's successful, then a secondary is not required, but may be needed in some cases. So I have the following questions for SATTSO:
(1) Is the above correct at the level of detail that I've presented it?
(2) Does the SOP state the mix of other ID vs. verification that's allowed or is that up to the discretion of the STSO?
(3) Is there a firm rule as to when a secondary is required?
(4) If #3 is "yes", is that SSI? If not, what is it?
(5) You implied that even if the verification wasn't successful, the passenger may still be allowed to fly. Can you clarify that?
What I found interesting here is that some of what's in this thread disagrees with what a checkpoint supervisor told me at TPA. After clearing, I asked him about what options I had while my passport was being renewed. I showed him a handful of other ID (most of which had pictures) and he said that wouldn't help. I asked about the ID verification and he said it was risky since "if you make a mistake, you won't fly". Most of that is at odds with what's been posted here and other threads. Perhaps you can comment on that issue too.
1. No, there were 3 options: provide identification, receive secondary, do not fly
2. Acceptable IDs are list, and you have access to them too. But it is an incomplete list, as there are other IDs that are acceptable. I have seen IDs from federal judges, and as far as I know that is not list, but it is acceptable. Correct me if I am wrong.
3. No
4. N/A
5. I did not imply it, I stated it. And this is also post on the TSA web page to which you have access. If someone does not have ID, we ask th to provide information to the BDO to verify their identity. This process might be unsuccessful, for various reasons, perhaps memory issues (medical reason). If the identity can not be verified, and if you do not have ID on you, if you cooperated and attempted to assist in the process, the STSO has the authority to allow you through the checkpoint.
Edit: I am not a lawyer, nor a legal expert, but since the new policy - and knowing about gilmore - this last thing has stuck with me. When it really comes down with it, it is not absolute that your identity is confirmed or verified. And I wonder, when TSAs ID policy gos to court, what role will this play? I kind of wonder if TSA added this for a reason... Again, I am not a legal expert at all. But it still sticks out to me. Any lawyers on this site have am opinion?
Edit 2: this is from the TSA web site. You should read it carefully.
"Passengers who do not or cannot present an acceptable ID will have to provide information to the Transportation Security Officer performing Travel Document Checking duties in order to verify their identity. Passengers who are cleared through this process may be subject to additional screening. Passengers whose identity cannot be verified by TSA may not be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint or onto an airplane."
notice it says "passengers who do not or cannot present...". Hmmm what do you think that means? I know you were told by a STSO that if you refuse to so ID you will be refused...let's look at something else.
The last part about "MAY not be allowed to enter...". Another hmmmm moment. If you reverse that it says even if we can't verify your ID you may be allowed to enter anyways.
So why did the STSO tell you what he told you? It's a supervisor discression. Read the entire passage again, and then consider this:
if you DO not provide ID we will attempt to verify your identity another way, and if we can not verify it that way, you still may be able to fly. It's up to the STSO. (I'm not sure what other IDs you showed the STSO)
Hope this clarifies the issue for you.