Originally Posted by
goalie
i agree completely-i was just being my pita self
to make sure that both sides of the picture posted by
TSO1973 are in play
. now if i may, a question about belts and their removal.....are pax
required to remove their belts? the reason i ask is that since i'm the orthopedic shoe terrorist
, i am reminded about my belt when i am about go thru the wtmd where i respond that it never alarms and that's it-the only time i have any "issues" is when the wtmd gatekeeper tso does not know the definition of orthopedic shoes
and i win a retaliatory (where i proceed to ruin the tso's day [and contrary to popular belief, i cut tso's a lot of slack, and i mean a lot of slack, as long as they play by the rules] but i digress). so with all of that, if pax are not required to remove their belts and the belt does not alarm, there is, imho and afaic, a very very big security hole just waiting to be exploited (if it hasn't already been)
bolding mine: the problem is that most people would rush the person with the knife straight on and would probably end up causing more harm to themselves
Hehe, I will confess, I am not certain about the belt, the last I remember, it was to be removed and xrayed if the person alarmed. There may have been changes since I was doing pat-downs.
I will tell you, I have found that even if you are uncertain of things (as a TSO), and explain :
1) Is there anything that I can help you with?/Do you need help with anything?
2) I apologize, but I am not certain exactly what the SOP says on this, hold on while I get the correct answer for you.
I have found that when folks with orthopedic shoes, braces, casts, and just about any kind of medical device/equipment that is not found on a majority of passengers - simply talking to them, and asking what I can help with makes it much easier. That way I am not trying to "lord over" someone, I find out how to best help that specific person.
If you do not alarm with shoes on, there should be some additional screening for the shoes and you, but that is not retaliation, simply SOP.
You are correct about the knife thing. I once saw pics of an LEO that ran up against a guy that was good with a straight razor - 400+ stitches and a few bags o blood later, he looked like Frankenstiens monster! This was a fairly well seasoned guy too, not a rookie by any stretch. The best thing that can happen is someone disarms the knife guy, and no-one gets hurt - the probable outcome with someone that has no training is a couple of people get some new scars and he takes a beat down - the worst outcome is a pile of people at his feet and he is undone by sheer numbers.
Originally Posted by
birdstrike
Whoa! This statement really raises my hackles. When you go from protecting the flight to protecting individual passengers you open a whole new can of worms. I'm not sure I want the TSA anywhere near commercial aviation to begin with and now you are (in your mind) massively expanding your scope.
My god man. I could garrote a cute FA with the laces from my hiking boots while a co-conspirator demands access to the cockpit*.
Any blade allowed pre-9/11 isn't a threat to a flight.
*Well, I couldn't since I weigh less then most of the cute flight attendants, but my cousin Vinny-Abdul certainly could, so there.
Read the statements - it all boils down to "keeping the flying public safe". Blades are a threat, they have been on the list for quite some time, the same for firearms, axes, crowbars - things that have been primarily identified as threat items (or the coveted dual-purpose - where they can be used for normal routines such as hammers, the aforementioned crowbar, etc) and can also be used to damage the airplane/passengers. I got ya on the garrote, that is an old school remedy that is best used from above or behind - I was always partial to the ink pen container minus the ink insert jabbed into the seam at the base of the neck and collarbone, get lucky and hit the jugular and we all get a fountain show! (snicker
lol) Many of us have had training on how to use common everday items as weapons, it is the items that are understood to be weapons that we are looking for. I hate finding a pen knife because I have carried one since I was about 4 years old, and STILL carry one away from work. I understand how some passengers feel "nekkid" without their "Buck" or "Barlow", so it makes me upset when some of those folks surrender them.
NEVER, EVER, underestimate a person because of their size... Worst beat down I ever took was from a guy about 5'2-3" and weighed in at about 110 - there were like 100 punches thrown and exactly 2 of them were mine (hehe, I didn't like it so much when it happened, but I learned a very important lesson that day!).