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Old Feb 25, 2010 | 3:55 am
  #28  
pbarnette
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
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Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Industry consolidation, especially hard consolidation from merging NW and DL and supported by exceptional anti-trust protections extended to competition-busting joint ventures and alliances, are the very epitome of changed industry dynamics that are causing these price increases.
Such consolidation was coming one way or another. The only question was/is whether some of the players will merge out of the market or simply liquidate. Given the absolute lack of pricing power in the industry, the US market could never support 6 full-service, international carriers. I doubt it can even support the current 5. Europe has seen the same dynamic going on, settling on 3 major carriers and a bunch of bit players - and I question the ability of the bit players (like SK) to make a go of it.

Regardless, let's not blame the lack of suicidally low fares entirely on a lack of competition. I mean, the soft drink industry is Coke, Pepsi, and a bunch of bit players and there is plenty of innovation and low prices there. Three strong competitors in the TATL market should be enough to keep prices honest. It may not be the ridiculous bargain that we have recently enjoyed, but that doesn't mean they are anti-competitive.

Originally Posted by cfw
It's no surprise that DTW is seeing reduced service, and it's no surprise AMS is, also. There were too many empty seats as it was already on the east coast routes, and DL's transcon service is well established through JFK, ATL and LAX, largely by way of CDG if headed East.
It isn't suprising, since DTW is not really seeing reduced service. There have been some reductions in capacity, but not any wholesale reduction in service. To Asia, DTW has actually seen a fair amount of new services announced or added. DTW was not a major international gateway on the order of ATL or JFK, even under NW.

Originally Posted by cfw
For Europe, delta has always preferred CDG and AF, because AF|KLM prefers CDG and AF. I don't understand why AF hasn't killed KLM yet, but I guess European mergers are different than American ones, and I'm sure the French government operating a domestic Dutch carrier has something to do with it...so they pretend KLM is a separate company.

I do believe that the days of the "old alliance" of NW/KL with a DTW and AMS centered world are going to be a thing of the past.
I don't think this is entirely accurate. From the AF perspective, they run KL differently because it serves a different market. AMS is much more of a connection point and less of an O/D market, and they utilize AMS for that purpose. This also helps to explain the product differences, with AF offering international F, and blocked middle seats in short-haul biz, for example.

As to the relationship with DL, I really don't see that much difference now than there used to be. There are far more KL codes on DL metal than there are AF codes on DL metal. Does this mean that you are always going to be routed via AMS? No, but I really don't see that as being that different from how it was pre-merger, at least if you think about your choices pre-merger as being DL + NW + AF + KL. I certainly thought along those lines and booked according to what made sense. I don't understand why everyone thinks that their preferred routing should be the cheapest option, as it certainly was not always the case when NW or DL were separate companies.
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