Originally posted by
blueeyes_austin:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">California does NOT have the right to attach legal restrictions like that to its citzens elsewhere in the United States. If the transaction is conducted in Texas and is legal under Texas law there is nothing to adjudicate in California.</font>
I suggest you consult a lawyer or do some research, to allay your mis-impressions. "Minimum contacts" jurisprudence is well settled, and choice of law analysis is almost as straight-forward.
Originally posted by
Tango:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">California also requires that anybody who sells a travel ticket to someone in California needs to register (and pay) to their travel fund--even if they are located out of the State. I doubt most located outside of California are aware of this and are breaking the law when they sell a ticket to somebody living in California.</font>
Do you have a citation to this? Is it a penal (criminal) statute that could result in jail? My suspicion is that it is a civil statute or regulation, the contravention of which, at most, would require that you wouldn’t have access to courts if the other party defaults.
Originally posted by
SPN Lifer (15 Apr 03, page 3 of this thread):
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I stand [somewhat] corrected, though Penal Code Section 483 refers to tickets, not frequent flyer miles. I can see how an airline, or even theoretically an overzealous deputy district attorney, could argue that issuance of an award in another's name from one's own mileage account, in exchange for cash or barter, constitutes "ticket scalping." Without going into the legislative history, however, it would appear that the statute was designed to cover a different social ill than what is at issue here.</font>
Calif. Penal Code § 483 is a misdemeanor.
Originally posted by
smarten:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I apologize for the delay in posting, however, let me refer SPN Lifer to another provision of law which makes the sale of frequent flyer mileage illegal; California Business and Professions Code, 17500 which declares as follows . . . .</font>
No problem whatsoever about the delay. It seems you’re a busy lawyer, as am I.
The title of a statute may not be dispositive in many jurisdictions, but out of curiosity, what is the title of Calif. B & P Code § 17500? “Deceptive advertising” perchance? [I didn’t look it up because I thought you’d know off-hand.] After all, the gravamen of this misdemeanor is likewise to make a statement “which is untrue or misleading, and which is known, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue or misleading.”
Originally posted by
smarten:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">We had another recent thread on this Board where the poster purportedly sold frequent flyer miles to a ticket broker who later sold them to a third party. The third party's ticket was confiscated by the airline; the third party made claim against the ticket broker [which presumably was honored]; and then the broker threatened legal action against the original seller. In that thread I suggested to the poster that if in California, the broker would not be able to use the court system for restitution.
Being an illegal contract, hopefully we now all see that at least in California, the broker has no legal remedy.
So like many things in life, although we as frequent flyers may be able to get away with selling or bartering our frequent flyer miles, that fact neither makes it legally permissible [according to the airlines] nor lawful [according to California].</font>
While somewhat helpful, your analysis focuses on civil liability.
Some posters on this thread were more worried about
criminal liability. Another poster made a very good point, which also immediately occurred to me when reading your post:
Originally posted by
QuietLion:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">So it looks like as long as he makes note of the fact that buying/selling miles is against the airline rules it would be legal under that California statute.</font>
Precisely.
All one would have to do would be include a disclaimer, such as the following. (Feel free to improve on it.)
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">“Buyer acknowledges that paid transfer of frequent flyer miles is in violation of the airline’s frequent flyer program Terms and Conditions. Therefore, Buyer will not disclose to the airline that the miles used to issue the award ticket were purchased, and assumes the risk that such disclosure may result in confiscation of the ticket by the airline. In such event, Buyer will have no further recourse against Seller, including any refund of the purchase price. Seller is highly motivated to maintain confidentiality, in that disclosure may result in forfeiture of all the miles in Seller’s frequent flyer account.”</font>
I am posting the foregoing language solely for illustrative, scholarly, and debate purposes, and not to “tortiously interfere with the prospective economic advantage” of any airline or its program. Nor have I ever bought or sold a ticket, nor do I advocate doing so.
In my view, the biggest risk
by far is civil, not criminal liability. As demonstrated by
smarten, however, and further suggested by my disclaimer to my disclaimer, those risks are not insignificant if one doesn’t handle the “illegal” transaction carefully.
[UBB edit.]
[This message has been edited by SPN Lifer (edited Dec 11, 2003).]